And the crawling worms LNG are looking as minds blown, how are bipeds able to walk, crawl or even hit hard the worms? 4 senses cannot think and die again and again. Ganga Matha told Bheeshma python, keep zipped or else worms will enter the earth. The oldman knows nothing better than the texts he studies in the school; so he will write English poems and Sphinx of the Oedipus Complex riddles. Even a worm will know it as he knows. You missed one word in the beginning ONE VOICE BUT . Riddle may say Human but it will not fit the quadrupeds like LNG cattles. There are so many which I can write but you won't be able to answer, because your know how is only your school days Thank uda Narayana
On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 at 08:12, Narayanaswamy Iyer <[email protected]> wrote: > > The ape has only just descended from the jungle trees, and is learning how > to walk. It is still crawling on its belly and its four stunted legs. > Wants tuition on how to urinate ! > > Remember the old saying: What animal has four legs in the morning, two > legs at noon, and three legs at sunset? > > S Narayanaswamy Iyer > > On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 5:56 PM Laxminarayan Sarma < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Dear Annas B/Sri Narayanaswamy and Gopalakrishnan >> >> I'm wondering >> >> where is Sri Rajaram,m >> >> On Wed, 12 Jun, 2024, 2:18 pm Narayanaswamy Iyer, <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Dear Sri Gopalakrishnan >>> >>> You are perfectly right. >>> >>> The next question might even be "Who invented sleeping?" or "Who >>> invented living?" >>> >>> *Madmen's calcified brains cannot answer the question: "Who vilifies >>> vaadhyaars and heads of mutts?"* >>> >>> By the way, my last sentence in my last post should have been, "They >>> know nothing of *sathyam vada*." >>> >>> S Narayanaswamy Iyer >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 3:27 PM gopala krishnan <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Respected sir, >>>> >>>> Tomorrow the topic can be who invented *eating*,Day after tomorrow who >>>> invented *urinating*, next day who invented *kissing*, ....... As long >>>> as there are persons to admire the c p poster, *either they read the >>>> posting or not,* such topics will continue. >>>> >>>> In Pitu Gothra, topics about athletics, army men will be c p told. The >>>> posters c p topic has nothing to do with title. >>>> >>>> But the C P poster *will criticize doctors, professors, biologists, >>>> whose knowledge is far less than the c p poster's B Sc. degree. * >>>> >>>> God, save us, save the groups >>>> Gopalakrishnan >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, 12 June, 2024 at 10:55:45 am IST, Narayanaswamy Iyer < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Briefly, walking was never "invented", any more than talking. It >>>> occurred naturally. >>>> >>>> All animals with legs walked; some leaped or jumped. Crocodiles, >>>> alligators, lizards, and other reptiles crawled on all four legs. Apes >>>> walked after they left the trees and ceased to hang from branches with >>>> their hands. Even birds walk. >>>> >>>> Utter gross and incurable stupidity bordering on insanity sometimes >>>> seeks grotesque esoteric origins for walking, especially among those >>>> uneducated loafers and buffoons who cannot write decent >>>> grammatical English, and twist everything to suit their bouts of madness, >>>> e.g.:- >>>> >>>> "*Who started the walking? In India the first walker was /is /will be >>>> the DHARMAM; dharmam chara:** Prayer for physical and moral health.*" >>>> >>>> They do not know that elegant walking leads to dramatic dancing, as in >>>> the case of Lord Shiva's cosmic dance as Nataraaja in Chidambaram. >>>> >>>> They know nothing of *sathyam chara*. >>>> >>>> S Narayanaswamy Iyer >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 10:35 AM Rajaram Krishnamurthy < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Who Invented Walking? Uncovering the Origins of Our Oldest Mode of >>>> Movement >>>> >>>> The question of who invented walking takes us on a captivating journey >>>> through human history. Delving into our ancestral past, we uncover the >>>> origins of this fundamental mode of movement. From the earliest hominids >>>> taking tentative steps to the complex bipedalism of modern humans, our >>>> ability to walk has shaped our evolution and society. Exploring >>>> archaeological findings, fossil records, and evolutionary theories, we gain >>>> insights into the development of our unique walking abilities. This >>>> exploration not only satisfies our curiosity about our ancient predecessors >>>> but also offers valuable perspectives on the adaptability and resilience of >>>> the human species. By unravelling the mysteries surrounding the invention >>>> of walking, we connect with our shared human heritage, appreciating the >>>> profound impact this basic yet extraordinary ability has had on our >>>> development as a species. >>>> >>>> 2 The origin of walking is a fascinating journey through human >>>> evolution. As we delve into the past, we uncover the first steps taken by >>>> our ancestors, marking the dawn of walking as a fundamental human activity. >>>> Tracing these ancient footsteps provides valuable insights into the >>>> development of our species. Understanding how walking evolved from a basic >>>> mode of transportation to a complex social and cultural activity offers a >>>> unique glimpse into human history. This exploration not only sheds light on >>>> our physical capabilities but also uncovers the deep-rooted significance of >>>> walking in our lives. Examining the earliest forms of walking provides a >>>> foundation for appreciating the natural, instinctive act that has been >>>> integral to our existence since time immemorial. As we unravel the story of >>>> our ancestors’ initial strides, we gain a deeper understanding of the >>>> question, “Who invented walking?” >>>> >>>> Walking in Ancient Civilizations: How Different Cultures Perceived and >>>> Utilized Walking >>>> >>>> 3 Examining the history of walking in ancient civilizations unveils >>>> diverse perspectives and practices. Various cultures perceived walking >>>> uniquely, reflecting their societal values and practical needs. In ancient >>>> times, walking was not merely a mode of transportation but also held >>>> symbolic, religious, and social significance. From the ceremonial >>>> processions of ancient Egyptians to the philosophical strolls of >>>> ancient Greeks, each civilization imbued walking with cultural meaning. >>>> Exploring these historical nuances not only enriches our understanding >>>> of ancient lifestyles but also offers insights into the evolution of human >>>> mobility. { Always the west starts and ends between Greek and Egypt >>>> only as the civilisation but our authors will quote it as stated by etc} >>>> Analysing archaeological findings and historical texts, we gain a glimpse >>>> into the daily lives and customs of our forebearers. This exploration >>>> highlights the universal nature of walking while showcasing the distinctive >>>> ways different civilizations harnessed its potential. Understanding these >>>> ancient practices deepens our appreciation for the timeless art of walking, >>>> connecting us to the enduring legacy of our ancestors. >>>> >>>> The Science Behind Walking: Exploring the Human Anatomy and Physiology >>>> of Walking >>>> >>>> 4 Understanding the science of walking delves into the intricacies >>>> of human anatomy and physiology. It involves a harmonious interplay of >>>> muscles, bones, and neurological signals, allowing us to move gracefully. >>>> This natural phenomenon, rooted in biomechanics, showcases the incredible >>>> design of the human body. The study of gait patterns, muscle coordination, >>>> and balance mechanisms provides valuable insights into the evolution of >>>> bipedalism. By exploring the biomechanical aspects, scientists unravel the >>>> mysteries of how our ancestors transitioned from quadrupedalism to walking >>>> upright. Moreover, delving into the neurological aspects, such as the >>>> brain’s role in controlling movement, enhances our comprehension of the >>>> walking process. This scientific exploration not only enriches our >>>> knowledge of human locomotion but also offers practical applications, >>>> guiding fields like physical therapy and rehabilitation. Investigating the >>>> science behind walking is not just an academic pursuit but a window into >>>> the marvels of human physiology, illustrating the intricate mechanisms >>>> behind our everyday movements. >>>> >>>> Cultural Significance: Walking in Rituals, Traditions, and Daily Life >>>> Around the World >>>> >>>> 5 Walking holds profound cultural significance, woven into the >>>> fabric of societies globally. From ancient rituals to modern traditions, it >>>> plays a vital role in various cultures. In many societies, walking >>>> symbolizes spiritual journeys, with pilgrimages undertaken for religious >>>> enlightenment. Additionally, traditional ceremonies often incorporate >>>> walking as a form of celebration or reflection. Moreover, daily life in >>>> numerous cultures emphasizes walking, fostering community interactions and >>>> healthy lifestyles. Exploring these cultural nuances not only reveals >>>> diverse perspectives but also highlights the universal importance of >>>> walking in human existence. Studying these traditions provides valuable >>>> insights into the social, spiritual, and health-related aspects of walking, >>>> showcasing its enduring impact on different societies. Understanding the >>>> cultural significance of walking enriches our appreciation for its >>>> multifaceted nature, connecting us to the global tapestry of traditions >>>> that have embraced this fundamental human activity throughout history. >>>> >>>> Walking Through History: Notable Figures and Events That Shaped the Way >>>> We Walk >>>> >>>> 6 Throughout history, notable figures and events have >>>> significantly influenced the way we perceive and practice walking. For >>>> instance, philosophers like Henry David Thoreau >>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_David_Thoreau> and Friedrich >>>> Nietzsche <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche> advocated >>>> for the benefits of walking, emphasizing its connection to creativity >>>> and introspection. The suffragettes’ marches in the early 20th century >>>> exemplified how walking could be a powerful form of protest, sparking >>>> social change. In recent times, events like charity walks and >>>> marathons have transformed walking into communal activities, promoting both >>>> fitness and social causes. Additionally, influential leaders like Mahatma >>>> Gandhi <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi> and Martin >>>> Luther King Jr. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr.> >>>> utilized >>>> walking as a means of nonviolent protest, leaving an indelible mark on >>>> history. Exploring these figures and events not only illustrates the >>>> evolution of walking but also underscores its role as a catalyst for >>>> individual empowerment and societal progress. Understanding these >>>> historical contexts deepens our appreciation for the impact of walking on >>>> both personal well-being and broader social movements. >>>> >>>> The Modern Era: How Technology and Urbanization Have Impacted Walking >>>> Habits >>>> >>>> 7 In the modern age, technology and urbanization have profoundly >>>> shaped our walking habits. Urban centres have witnessed the rise of >>>> pedestrian-friendly infrastructures, encouraging walking for both commuting >>>> and recreation. Additionally, smartphones and fitness apps have transformed >>>> walking into a tracked activity, promoting health-conscious walking >>>> routines. The advent of wearable devices further integrates walking into >>>> our daily lives, monitoring steps and encouraging physical activity. >>>> Conversely, urbanization has led to sedentary lifestyles, with increased >>>> reliance on vehicles. Understanding this dichotomy is essential. While >>>> technology promotes awareness of walking’s health benefits, it also >>>> necessitates mindful efforts to counterbalance sedentary tendencies. >>>> Analysing these trends provides insights into the complex relationship >>>> between modern living, technology, and the age-old practice of walking. >>>> Navigating this intersection is crucial for fostering healthier communities >>>> in our technologically advanced world. >>>> >>>> 8 Walking for Health: Unraveling the Physical and Mental Benefits of >>>> Walking >>>> >>>> Walking is more than just a mode of transportation; it’s a powerful >>>> tool for physical and mental well-being. Physically, regular walking >>>> strengthens >>>> muscles, improves cardiovascular health, and aids in weight management. >>>> <https://radioplatonic.com/beyond-yoga-exploring-holistic-wellness-and-mind-body-connection/> >>>> It >>>> enhances flexibility and reduces the risk of chronic illnesses, including >>>> heart disease and diabetes. Moreover, walking is accessible to people of >>>> all ages and fitness levels, making it an inclusive exercise option. >>>> >>>> 9 Beyond the physical benefits, walking has significant mental health >>>> advantages. It reduces stress, anxiety, and depression by triggering the >>>> release of endorphins, the body’s natural mood enhancers. Walking outdoors, >>>> especially in natural settings, enhances these benefits, connecting >>>> individuals with nature and promoting mental clarity. Moreover, walking >>>> provides a break from the digital world, offering a chance for mindfulness >>>> and relaxation. >>>> >>>> 10 Furthermore, walking is known to boost creativity and cognitive >>>> function. It enhances brain connectivity and promotes neuroplasticity, >>>> improving memory and overall brain health. Regular walks stimulate creative >>>> thinking and problem-solving skills, making it a valuable activity for >>>> individuals seeking mental clarity and inspiration. >>>> >>>> 11 Who started the walking? In India the first walker was /is >>>> /will be the DHARMAM; dharmam chara: Prayer for physical and moral >>>> health.{TAITRIYA UPANISHAD}: Having given the mantra for acquiring >>>> retentiveness, the śruti now proceeds to teach a mantra for securing >>>> immunity >>>> from sickness:शरीरं मे विचर्षणम् । जिह्वा मे मधुमत्तमा । कर्णाभ्यां >>>> भूरि विश्रुवम् । ब्रह्मणः कोशोऽसि मेधया पिहितः । श्रुतं मे गोपाय ॥ २ >>>> ॥śarīraṃ >>>> me vicarṣaṇam | jihvā me madhumattamā | karṇābhyāṃ bhūri viśruvam | >>>> brahmaṇaḥ kośo'si medhayā pihitaḥ | śrutaṃ me gopāya || 2 || 2. Able may >>>> my body be, sweetest be my tongue! With ears much may I hear! The sheath of >>>> Brahman art thou, veiled by intelligence. What I have learned do Thou keep. >>>> >>>> Concealed as Thou art by their worldly intelligence, they whose >>>> thoughts are engrossed in the external objects do not contemplate Thee, the >>>> Divine Being, who givest immortality. —Do Thou guard what I have heard, do >>>> thou guard my wisdom, the knowledge of the Self and the like which I have >>>> acquired by hearing the scriptural texts; that is to say, do Thou enable me >>>> to acquire wisdom and retain it.These mantras are to be repeated by >>>> him who wishes to improve the retentive power of memory.As I seek >>>> wisdom, may my body be healthy and thus efficient for a practice of >>>> contemplation! May my tongue be endued with extreme sweetness; may it be an >>>> apt organ wherewith to recite the scriptural texts! May I hear many a >>>> scriptural text conducive to the growth of wisdom: may I not be afflicted >>>> with the evil of deafness. O Praṇava, Thou art the place where I may >>>> meditate upon the Supreme Being, the Cause of the universe. Just as a >>>> leather-sheath is the place for preserving a sword, so is Praṇava the >>>> place for a safe meditation of Brahman. Accordingly, concerning the >>>> syllable ‘Om,’ the Kaṭha-Upaniṣad says: >>>> >>>> “This is the best means, this the highest means.” >>>> >>>> Thus Praṇava is associated with the retentive power of intellect. Do >>>> Thou, O Supreme Lord, designated as Thou art by that grand Pranava, protect >>>> my learning—all the secret truths of the Veda that I have learned with my >>>> ears— by way of removing the obstacles of forgetfulness and the like. >>>> Pranava is the root cause of health and that is invoked in the walking. >>>> While walking today people here fast music as well as bhakti music also. >>>> And meditations and breathings are well regulated, while walking. >>>> >>>> 12 Cāra (चार).—[*cara eva aṇ*] 1) Going, walking, gait, wandering >>>> about; मण्डलचारशीघ्रः (*maṇḍala cāra śīghraḥ*) V.5.2; क्रीडाशैले यदि च >>>> विचरेत् पाद- चारेण गौरी (*krīḍāśaile yadi ca vicaret pāda- cāreṇa >>>> gaurī*) Meghadūta 6; निवृत्तचारः सहसा गतो रविः प्रवृत्तचारा रजनी >>>> ह्युपस्थिता (*nivṛttacāraḥ sahasā gato raviḥ pravṛttacārā rajanī >>>> hyupasthitā*) Rām.2.66.26 *walk on foot.* >>>> >>>> Rama’s Trail: The places in the Ramayana that you can find even now >>>> >>>> In exile, Prince Ram travelled the length of the country to reach >>>> present-day Sri Lanka to rescue Sita. Today neither can we debate on the >>>> historical accuracy nor on its existence, however, there are some of the >>>> places with strong folklores and the proofs that you can visit in the >>>> present time that will make you believe Ramayana existed in real life. >>>> Ayodhya, >>>> Uttar Pradesh, Birthplace of Lord Ram> Janakpur, Nepal, Birthplace of >>>> Sita> Prayag, Allahabad, Rama Seeks Rishi Bharadwaj’s blessings> >>>> Chitrakoot, >>>> Madhya Pradesh, Bharat Milap> Dandakaranya, Chhattisgarh, where Rama >>>> spent most of his time during his exile> Lepakshi, Andhra Pradesh, >>>> where Jatayu fell> Kishkindha, Karnataka, Rama meets Hanuman> Rameshwaram, >>>> Tamil Nadu, Builds Ram Sethu> Ashok Vatika, Sri Lanka, Sita held >>>> captive> Talai Mannar, Sri Lanka, Lord Rama Reaches Lanka. >>>> >>>> 13 Mahabhartham Aranya walking By Pandavas. 1. Kedarnath: located >>>> in Uttarakhand, this is a jyotirlinga. According to the story, after the >>>> great war when the Pandavas went to meet Shiva >>>> >>>> 2. Badrinath and Mana village: also in Utttarakhand, the ashram of >>>> Ved Vyas who authored Mahabharata is in Badrinath >>>> >>>> 3. Jageswara Dham: It is situated in Uttarakhand, and lies around 34 km >>>> from Almora. The temple complex, which is situated in a densely wooded >>>> valley lies on the left bank of the river Jatganga. There are three temple >>>> clusters here, which were built between 7th -11th century CE by the Katyuri >>>> kings. It is at this place that the Pandavas, while starting for their >>>> Mahaprasthan towards Swargarohani, had performed their shraddh (last rites) >>>> on the banks of the Jatganga, cutting off all ties with the world. >>>> >>>> 4 Gokul and Vrindavan: the two sites of Krishna’s childhood >>>> (bal-leela), played out under the loving care of his parents Nanda and >>>> Jasodhara. >>>> >>>> 5. Indraprastha and Varnavat: situated at the south of the modern New >>>> Delhi, Pandavas had made this place their capital and built a grand palace >>>> here, after burning down the Khandav Van or forest. Even now there is a >>>> small area named Indraprastha, reminding one of the Mahabharatan times. >>>> Varnavat, now known as Barnava, is a small village near Meerut. >>>> [image: image.png] >>>> >>>> Jyotisar, Kurukshetra, Banyan age 5000-year-old War time in >>>> Mahabharatham. >>>> >>>> 14 >>>> [image: image.png] >>>> >>>> 15 Understanding these multifaceted benefits emphasizes the >>>> >>>> importance of walking for holistic health. It’s a simple yet effective >>>> way to improve physical fitness, mental well-being, and overall quality of >>>> life. Incorporating regular walks into daily routines can lead to lasting >>>> health benefits, making it a fundamental practice in the pursuit of a >>>> healthier, happier life. >>>> >>>> Future Trends: Innovations and Changes in Walking Patterns in the 21st >>>> Century" >>>> >>>> 16 In the 21st century, walking is experiencing innovative >>>> transformations, reshaping how we move and interact with our environment. >>>> Technological advancements, such as smart wearables and augmented reality, >>>> are influencing walking patterns. Smart shoes equipped with sensors monitor >>>> gait, providing real-time feedback and personalized suggestions for >>>> improving walking efficiency and posture. >>>> >>>> 17 Moreover, urban planning is embracing pedestrian-friendly >>>> designs, creating walkable cities with green spaces, dedicated walking >>>> paths, and smart traffic systems. These initiatives not only promote >>>> physical activity but also enhance environmental sustainability and >>>> community well-being. Additionally, the integration of walking into daily >>>> routines is being encouraged through workplace initiatives and city >>>> programs, fostering a culture of active commuting. >>>> >>>> 18 The future also holds exciting prospects for virtual >>>> reality-enhanced walking experiences, where individuals can explore virtual >>>> worlds while walking on treadmills, combining physical activity with >>>> immersive entertainment. Furthermore, advancements in exoskeleton >>>> technology are making strides in assisting individuals with mobility >>>> impairments, enabling them to walk independently. >>>> >>>> 19 Understanding and adapting to these future trends in walking >>>> patterns are essential. Embracing technological innovations and sustainable >>>> urban planning initiatives can enhance public health, reduce carbon >>>> emissions, and create vibrant, interconnected communities. As walking >>>> evolves in the 21st century, it not only contributes to individual >>>> well-being but also becomes a catalyst for shaping healthier, more >>>> sustainable societies. >>>> >>>> K RAJARAM IRS 11624 12624 >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On Facebook, please join >>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust >>>> >>>> We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join >>>> >>>> Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup >>>> >>>> Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust >>>> >>>> Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: >>>> https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "KeralaIyers" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL5XZoqYQn-Cipes10grWHvcSv%3D1kwXq1M4ZjS--maQe2rmCBw%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL5XZoqYQn-Cipes10grWHvcSv%3D1kwXq1M4ZjS--maQe2rmCBw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "iyer123" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/CAL4idhOLwyWJHNSsRWcyt%2BCz8iomiRh%2Bf_qMnDgNg0ZbSWnjxA%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/CAL4idhOLwyWJHNSsRWcyt%2BCz8iomiRh%2Bf_qMnDgNg0ZbSWnjxA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "iyer123" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/CAL4idhOrU%2B6kNBFmAPUphv2e_N7ERQLSSvrHS3AmRx27xaFu%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/CAL4idhOrU%2B6kNBFmAPUphv2e_N7ERQLSSvrHS3AmRx27xaFu%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "iyer123" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/CAEcNPKrN93xCChKvGVnive-OkWh2%3DJB5OV6YyYD06%3DVXNSLxGQ%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/CAEcNPKrN93xCChKvGVnive-OkWh2%3DJB5OV6YyYD06%3DVXNSLxGQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "iyer123" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/CAL4idhMkU%2Bj4w6Rdu-n%3Dd0PuV0mkQFXWa2zh8TBOKSz%2BcUcsdA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/CAL4idhMkU%2Bj4w6Rdu-n%3Dd0PuV0mkQFXWa2zh8TBOKSz%2BcUcsdA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. 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