Respected sir,
What a blunder the copy paste Rajaram has committed in a simple samskara.
Being a Brahmin does he not know, how naming of children are done? Is it simply
naming of avatars of Gods? When there are more children, the last ones only
named after Gods.
The first son is named after the paternal Grandfather and second son after the
maternal grandfather. Similarly the first daughter is named after paternal
grand mother and second daughter after maternal grand mother. Ayyo kashtam.
Not only Brahmins, all Hindus knows it. As long as there are a few playing
jalra to him, he will continue copy paste and they will appreciate ha ha ha,
how knowlegeble is Rajaram.
Those correct him, he will abuse matapayal, porumpokku, thevidiyappayal. He
will never appreciate correction. I have never seen a person like Mr Rajaram
who is having no ethic and culture.
He knows only call others well knowing as bogus qualified, peon etc. How much
time it will take to call him peon in an income tax office. In order to prevail
a calm atmosphere, I am not responding to him. He takes advantage of it and
make all satirical remarks.
Gopalakrishnan
On Saturday, 22 June, 2024 at 01:50:42 pm IST, Narayanaswamy Iyer
<[email protected]> wrote:
Dear folks
The uninitiated, unlearned, uneducated ex-taxcollector and current
rubbish-collector K Rajaram ex-IRS 22624 is once again displaying for public
scrutiny his colossal ignorance in a failed attempt to persuade the unwary that
he knows something when in fact he knows nothing..
This time he tries to sermonise on samskaarams, while treading on a sea of
quicksand, and gets sucked under because of his easily exposed lies and toxic
misrepresentations.
For example:-
(1) jaatha-karmam. Exactly what it says, i.e. determining the baby's
horoscope (jaathakam) by ascertaining the relative positions of the celestial
bodies when the child's head is sighted.
(2) naama-karanam. Again, exactly what it says: i.e. giving the newborn a
suitable name, normally the name of the paternal grandfather if a boy or of the
paternal grandmother if a girl. Or the name of a revered deity.
(3) anna-praashanam. Chorunnu in Malayalam. First solid food given
ceremonially to the baby. A little gold spoonful of well-cooked white rice,
mixed with boiled cow's milk and a little drop of honey is administered to the
baby, to the accompaniment of the relevant manthrams.
(4) chooda-karmam. Babies are sometimes born with hair, or quickly grow a
fuzz on their heads soon after. The one-year-old baby boy has this fuzz shaved
off, given a bath, given a forehead mark in the form of a black dot, and
wrapped in new swaddling cloth.
(5) karna-vedham. This sacrificial act of ear-piercing is performed for both
boy and girl babies, is primarily to protect them from "evil eyes", and also to
ward off illnesses. Normally done when the baby is one year old. A thin gold
ring is inserted through each hole.
(6) vidhya-aarambam. Beginning of child's education. Unhusked rice or husked
white rice is spread on a large flat plate. The child's father sits facing
east with the five-year-old child on his lap. The father uses the child's
right index to write on the grains:-
(a) shree mahaa ganapathaye namaha, (b) devee sarasvathaye namaha;
(c) sarvebhyo devathaabhyo namaha.
(7) upanayanam. Perhaps the most crucial of all the samskaarams.
The eight-year-old to fifteen-year-old boy is formally and ceremonially
invested with the sacred thread running over his left shoulder, crossing his
head and chest, and reaching to the right part of his hip. This triple thread
consists of (a) a three-fold fine gold ribbon, (b) a three-fold fine silver
ribbon, (c) a three-fold copper ribbon, and (d) a three-fold white cotton
thread.
He is then subjected to an oral examination where the significance and
importance of the whole ceremony is explained to him, and questions put to him
to make sure he understands the rules, duties and obligations of a braahmana.
He undertakes to abide by those rules and carry out those duties and
obligations.
Then, to the loud and clamorous beating of gongs, bells and drums, the loud
sounds of naathasvaram and other pipes, the boy, his father, and the
officiating priest, all wearing proper attire, normally silk, gather under a
special tent consisting of a large 9-yard silk veshti. The priest pronounces
the vedic manthram thrice, which the father teaches to the boy, while his
mother stands just outside the tent.
And the three emerge, to the cheers, clapping, and other welcoming gestures of
the assembled braahmanas and their families.
The boy is then taught the maahdyaahnika sandhya vandana and sandhya gaayathree
manthrams, and performs the soorya darshanam through the gap in the crossed
fingers of both hands.
The boy then goes on a biksha-seeking yaathra. The first donor is his own
mother, followed by other married ladies (with children) . He tenders the
collected biksha to his vaadhyaar as dakshina.
He then has his first meal as a brahmachaari, together with another boy who is
already a brahmachaari, and learns the important bhojana manthrams including
the praana-aahuthis..
(8) veda-aarambham. Starting veda studies. Once he has successfully
undergone upanayanam, the boy is qualified to proceed to study the shaaka of
the veda his ancestors belonged to, This he does under the guidance of a
competent, devoted and reliable guru at home, or joins a paata-shaala.
Full-time study takes a minimum of eight years; part-time takes more than
three times that, and is a lifelong commitment.
(9) samavarththanam. Graduation. On completion of his Vedic studies, the
boy seeks the permission of his guru (or of his father if he studied at home)
to perform the whole-body-immersion bath at a temple's pool or in a river or at
sea to show that he has successfully completed his studies.
(Before doing so, he should tender guru-dakshanai to his guru, according to his
own ability. Sometimes this consists of a full set of 9-yard silk
veshti-uttareeyam, plus a full brass chombu of sacred water decorated with a
garland, with mango leaves, and a coconut with kudumi (called a
poorna-kumbham), and a gold ring or a gold chain.)
(10) vivaaham. Marriage. It is highly desirable and recommended, but not
compulsory, for a learned brahmachaari, to marry and become a gruhastha
(householder).
The choice is limited to a virgin of his own varnam, but not of his own
gothram.The reason is that, spiritually, all members of the same gothram are
siblings, their male ancestors having had their vedic education from the
guru/rishi whose name they permananently identify with.
(11) anthiyeshti kramam. These are last rites for a braahmana, whether man or
woman. The core of this samskaaramm involves the proper preparation of the
dead body for cremation, and its cremation (by the first son) on a pyre of dry
wood using the gruhasthaa-agni which was lit at the marriage of the deceased
and was used for his twice-daily aupaasana agniothram.
Note:- The wholly shoodra Swaami Naaraayan sampradaayam has no relevance at
all to the practice of braahmanas.
S Narayanaswamy Iyer
On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 10:59 AM Rajaram Krishnamurthy <[email protected]>
wrote:
SANATANA DHARMA PART 58 KRAJARAM IRS 21624 22624
Childhood Samskaras
(4) Jatakarma (Birthrituals)
These rituals are performed atthe birth of the child. It is believed that the
moon hasa special effect on thenewly born. In addition, the constellation of
the planets - nakshatras - alsodetermine the degree of auspiciousness. If birth
occurs during an inauspiciousarrangement, the jatakarmas are performed to ward
off their detrimental effectson the child. The father would also request the
Brahmanishtha Satpurush forblessings.
(5) Namkarana(Name-giving)
Based on the arrangement ofthe constellations at birth, the child is named on a
day fixed by castetradition. In the Hindu Dharma, the child is frequently named
after an avatar,deity, sacred place or river, saint, etc., as a constant
reminder of the sacredvalues for which that name represents.
In the Swaminarayan Sampraday,the devotees approach Pramukh Swami Maharaj or
the other senior sadhus to nametheir children.
(6) Nishkrama (Firstouting) In the third month the child is allowed agni (fire)
and chandra (moon)darshan. In the fourth month he is taken out of the house for
the first time,by the father or maternal uncle, to the mandir for the Lord's
darshan
TheSixteenSamskarasPart - 2
(7) Annaprashan(First feeding)
Feeding the child with solidfood is the next important samskara. For a son this
is done in even months -the 6th, 8th, 10th or 12th months. For a daughter this
is done in odd months -5th, 7th or 9th months. The food offered is cooked rice
with ghee.
Some sutras advocate honey tobe mixed with this.
By advocating this samskara,the wise sages accomplished two important
considerations. First, the child isweaned away from the mother at a proper time.
Second, it warns the mother tostop breast feeding the child. For, an uninformed
mother, many out of love,continue breast feeding the child, without realising
that she was not doingmuch good to herself or the child.
(8)Chudakarma (Chaul) (Shaving of head)
This samskara involves shavingthe head (of a son) in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 5th
year, or when initiating himwith the janoi (Upanayan). According to Sushrut,
the significance of this,together with nail cutting, is to give delight,
lightness, prosperity,
courage and happiness(Chikitsasthan. Ch. 24-72). Charak also voiced a similar
opinion.
In the Swaminarayan Sampraday,the son is first taken to Pramukh Swami Maharaj,
or senior sadhus, who clip atuft of hair. The remaining hair is shaved off
shortly afterwards.
A tuft of hair (shikha,chotli) is left in place at the top of the head for
longevity. Sushrut pointsout its significance, "Inside the head, near the top,
is the joint of a shira(artery) and a sandhi (critical juncture). There, in the
eddy of hairs, is avital spot called the adhipati (overlord). Any injury to
this part causessudden death"
(Sharirsthan Ch. VI, 83). Inthe course of time, the shikha was regarded as a
symbol of the Hindu Dharma andits removal came to be regarded as a grave sin
(Laghu Harita IV).
(9) Karnavedh(Piercing the earlobes)
The child's ear lobes arepierced either on the 12th or 16th day; or 6th, 7th or
8th month; or1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th or 9th year. Sushrut reasoned, "The ears of a
child shouldbe pierced for protection (from diseases such as hydrocoele and
hernia) and decoration(Sharirasthan Ch.16.1, Chikitsasthan Ch.19.21). One sutra
says that a goldsmithshould pierce the ears while Sushrut advocates a surgeon.
For a boy, the rightearlobe is pierced first and for a girl, the left. For boys
today, thissamskara is only prevalent in some states of India. In girls, this
samskara haslost its religious Educational Samskaras
(10) Vidyarambh(Learning the alphabet)
This samskara is also known asAkshararambha, Aksharlekhan, Aksharavikaran
andEducationally Aksharavishkaran.
It is performed at the age offive and is necessary before commencing Vedic
study -Vedarambh. After bathing,the child sits facing west, while the acharya
(teacher) sits facing east.
Saffron and rice are scatteredon a silver plank. With a gold or silver pen the
child is made to write letterson the rice. The following phrases are written:
"Salutation to Ganesh,salutation to Sarasvati (goddess of knowledge),
salutation to family deities andsalutation to Narayan and Lakshmi." The child
then writes, "Aum NamahSiddham". He then presents gifts to the acharya, such as
a pagh and safo(head adornment of cloth). The acharya then blesses the child.
(11) Upanayan(Yagnopavit) (Sacred thread initiation)
At the age of eight the son isinitiated by the acharya with the sacred thread,
known as janoi or yagnopavit.Amongst all the foregoing samskaras this is
regarded as supreme. It is the dawnof a new life, hence dvija - twice born. The
child enters studentship and alife of perfect discipline which involves
brahmacharya (celibacy).
He leaves the guardianship ofhis parents to be looked after by the acharya.
This samskara is performed byBrahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaishyas, for both boys
and girls. Therefore, both theboy and girl received training in discipline,
truthful living and physicalservice. During the course of time this samskara
ceased to be given to girls,who thus failed to be formally educated. Today, the
tradition of education underlyingthis samskara has died out. Upanayan only
functions to bestow dvijatva to theson.
Upa means 'near.' Nayan means'to take (him) to,' i.e. to take the son to the
teacher. Like the parents, theacharya will mold the student with love and
patience into a man of character.He will inculcate in him the invaluable
knowledge of the Vedas. This is thesecond meaning of Upanayan. Among all the
cultural systems of the world, none haveadvocated such a lofty and stringent
ideal for studentship than this Hindu samskara.If a student sincerely observes
this samskara, he will turn into a successfulscholar. Added to this, during
this period, he receives from the acharya, a strongbackground for the
householder's life he will later enter.
Today, it is obviously notfeasible to stay at the acharya's house. But the next
best equivalent is toenter a chhatralay - boarding school. The discipline
involved infuses in thestudent a fortitude generally not possible at home.
Whereas students wear onejanoi, householders could wear two; one for himself
and one for his wife.
The three strings of the janoidenote the three gunas - sattva (reality), rajas
(passion), and tamas(darkness). They also remind the wearer that he has to pay
off the three debtshe owes to the seers, ancestors and gods. The three strings
are tied by a knotknown as the brahmagranthi which symbolises Brahma (creator),
Vishnu (sustainer)and Shiva (leveller).
One important significance ofwearing the janoi is that the wearer would be
constantly aware of the differentdeities which the threads represented.
Therefore, he would be vigilant prior toany action not in accordance with the
Dharma Shastras.s
(12) Vedarambh(Beginning Vedic study)
This samskara was notmentioned in the earliest lists of the Dharma Sutras,
which instead listed thefour Vedic vows - Ved Vrats. It seemed that though
upanayana marked thebeginning of education, it did not coincide with Vedic
study. Therefore a separatesamskara was felt necessary to initiate Vedic study.
In this samskara, each student,according to his lineage, masters his own branch
of the Vedas.
(13) Keshant(Godaan) (Shaving the beard)
This samskara is included asone of the four Ved Vrats. When the other three
faded, keshant itself became aseparate samskara. 'Kesh' means hair and 'ant'
means end.
This samskara involves thefirst shaving of the beard by the student at the age
of sixteen. It is alsocalled Godaan because it involves gifting a cow to the
acharya and gifts to thebarber.
Since the student now entersmanhood he is required to be more vigilant over his
impulses of youth. Toremind him of his vow of brahmacharya, he is required to
take the vow anew; tolive in strict continence and austere discipline for one
year.
(14) Samavartan (Endof Studentship)
This samskara is performed atthe end of the brahmacharya phase - the end of
studentship. 'Sama vartan' meant'returning home from the house of the acharya.'
This involves a ritualsacrificial bath known as Awabhruth Snan. It is
sacrificial because it marksthe end of the long observance of brahmacharya. It
is a ritual bath because itsymbolises the crossing of the ocean of learning by
the student – hencebecause Vidyasnaatak- one who has crossed the ocean of
learning. In Sanskrit literature,
learning is compared to anocean.
Before the bath, the studenthas to obtain permission from the acharya to end
his studentship and give himguru-dakshina - tuition fees. Permission is
necessary because it certifies thestudent as a person fit in learning, habit
and character for a married life.Obviously, the student is not in a position to
pay fees. One Sutra describesthe debt of the teacher as unpayable, "Even the
earth containing the sevencontinents is not sufficient for the guru-dakshina."
But the formality isa required courtesy and the acharya says, "My child, enough
with money. Iam satisfied with thy merits." He would elaborate with the
impressivestatements, known as Dikshant Pravachan, noted in the Taittiriya
Upanishad(I.11).
Those students who wished toremain as lifelong students observing brahmacharya
would remain with theacharya. Today, this means accepting a spiritual guru – an
Ekantik Satpurushand becoming a sadhu. The student thus bypasses the next two
ashrams, to entersannyas.
The SixteenSamskaras Part - 3
Marriage
(15) Vivaha
This is the most important ofall the Hindu Samskaras. The Smrutis laud the
gruhastha (householder) ashram asthe highest, for it is the central support of
the other three ashrams.
Manu enjoins, "Havingspent the first quarter of one's life in the guru's house,
the second quarterin one's own house with the wife, and the third quarter in
the forest, oneshould take sannyas in the fourth, casting away every worldly
tie." (ManuSmruti IV.1). By marriage an individual is able to achieve the four
purusharths(endeavors) of life: dharma (righteousness), artha (wealth), kama
(desire) andmoksha (salvation). He is also able to pay off ancestral debt by
havingchildren. Procreation
for children is also a primarypurpose of marriage.
In addition to being areligious sacrament, Hindu marriage is also regarded as
an important socialinstitution. For developing a stable and ideal society,
marriage has beenregarded as an essential element in all cultures of the world.
A societywithout loyal marital ties tends to degrade. It is said that
promiscuity wasone reason for the downfall of the Romans. By marriage, both an
individual andsociety, while remaining within the moral norms, can progress
together.Simultaneously it does not cause harm to others nor infringe upon
one'sindependence. This samskara boosts cultural values and dharma. It upholds
andpromotes moral righteousness and self-control.
Types of Marriages
In the Hindu scriptures thereare eight types mentioned. In the Manu Smruti
(iii.21) they are divided intotwo groups: (i) the morally approved (prashasta)
and (ii) the disapproved(aprashasta).
(i) Prashasta
(a) Braahm: This is the puresttype. It was so called because it was thought fit
for
Brahmins. In this the girl isgiven by the father, with such ornaments that he
can afford, to a man ofcharacter and learning, whom he has invited voluntarily
and receivedrespectfully, without taking anything in exchange (Manu Smruti,
iii.17). The Smrutisconsider this type as the most honorable, as it is free
from physical force, lust,imposition of conditions and lure of money. Social
decency and religious considerationsare fully taken into account.
(b) Daiva: This is the nexttype, inferior to the Braahm. In this, the girl is
ornamented and given away bythe father to a priest who officiates at a yagna
(sacrifice). It is calledDaiva since the gift is made on the occasion of a
Daiva yagna. This method wasprevalent among the first three Hindu classes. This
type has faded, for it is consideredimproper to offer a girl to a priest.
(c) Aarsh: In this method thefather of the bride received a pair or two of kine
– a cow and an ox or twocows and two oxen - from the bridegroom for the purpose
of a yagna which formeda part of a religious ritual. The pair of kine was not
the bride's price. Thismethod was known as Aarsh because it was prevalent among
the priestly families.Nonetheless, according to the Manu Smruti (iii.53)
accepting a gift, small or large,amounts to a sale.
(d) Prajapatya: This involvesthe father giving away his daughter to a suitor
with the specific understandingthat they both perform their civic and religious
duties together. The namePrajapatya suggests that the couple enter the bond for
discharging their dutiesto Prajapati i.e. for procreating and raising children.
>From the Western point of viewthis type of marriage may be regarded
>satisfactory because the rights of thehusband and wife are equally well
>secured. But from the view of the Hindushastras, it is inferior to the first
>three. This is because the daughter isgiven subject to mundane conditions.
>Hence the 'gift' cannot truly be regardedas free.
As a point of interest,Kautilya in his Arthashastra prohibited divorce for the
four Prashastamarriages.
Now we shall consider the fourtypes of marriage which are not approved by the
scriptures
.(ii) Aprashasta
(e) Asura: The Manu Smruti(iii.31) defines this as, "Where the husband having
paid money to therelations of the bride and the bride herself, accepts her out
of freewill."
The main consideration in thiskind of marriage is money and it is, in reality,
a purchase. Manu condemns it,"The learned father of the girl should not accept
even the least amount ofprice. Accepting the price out of greed, he becomes the
seller of children."(Manu Smruti, iii.51.) The Aitareya Brahmana (I.16) brands
this type as pashuvivaha- animal marriage. Today this form of marriage is still
prevalent in certainsec ions of Hindu society where a dowry is demanded by the
bridegroom's
father from the bride'sfather. Public opinion has begun to frown upon dowry.
Religious and social leadershave been rallying against it. Pramukh Swami
Maharaj has always condemned it.During the International Youth Festival at
Vallabh Vidyanagar in 1990, heinspired 21,000 young men and women to take a vow
of refusing dowry. To thosewho cannot afford the marriage costs, he arranges
mass dowry-free marriagesduring grand festivals and yagnas.
(f) Gandharva: According toManu, "Where the bride and bridegroom meet each
other of their own accordand the union is consummated in passion, that form is
called Gandharva."(Manu Smruti, iii.32.) The name Gandharva is derived from a
tribe of that nameliving in the Himalayas, in which it was a common occurrence.
It was moreprevalent among the Kshatriyas as they represented the freest
element in society.The majority of the lawgivers discouraged it on religious
and moral grounds.
It was regarded as inferior tothe first five forms because it was performed
without sacred rituals and itoriginated from passion, a factor which seemed to
be tenuous.
(g) Rakshas: Manu says,"Capture of a girl by force while she is crying, having
killed, scatteredand injured her relatives, is called Rakshas Vivaha." (Manu
Smruti, iii.21.)This usually occurred during war or political upheavals. The
Kshatriyas usuallypractised this since they participated in war and obtained
women as war booties.The word rakshas means demonic.
(h) Paishach: This is theleast approved. Manu (iii.34) defines this as,
"Cohabiting with a girl inloneliness when she is sleepy, mad or intoxicated."
Obviously, this was themost uncivilized and barbaric method. Paishach means 'of
witches'. The HinduMarriage - Beliefs And Sentiments The Hindu marriage system
is described as areligious and social institution. More important is that it is
a union of twospirits rather than just two individuals. To consider this
metaphysically, anindividual is made up of three bodies: physical - composed of
matter (sthul),subtle - composed of mind (sukshma) and causal - composed of the
jiva (karan).The Vedic marriage is a union between all the three - matter with
matter, mindwith mind and jiva with jiva. With its sacramental vows, the couple
embark on ajourney together to attain the four objectives (purusharths) of
life. Duringthis journey the couple satisfy their desires - to earn, to beget
children, andto serve society. Added to this, they follow the path of bhakti
(devotion) and discoverthe divinity within themselves, of Brahman and
Parabrahman. This is reflectedin one of the rites during the ceremony. Mantras
are chanted to invoke Narayanin the bridegroom and Lakshmi in the bride. The
parents, relatives and everyonepresent then bow to them. The union is between
god and goddess, nottwo materialbodies. The underlying injunction to the couple
is, "You are not the body,but atma."
Regarding each other as theatma is the fundamental basis of a Vedic marriage.
It is unique in all theworld's cultures - which primarily observe the Gandharva
system based onpassion. This understanding is all the more important in marital
discord.
At the root of any maritaldiscord lies intolerance due to body consciousness
and one's ego - the 'I' and'mine'. If the couple is united by atma for a
common, ultimate goal, moksha,then 'I' and 'you' cease to exist. This is
because 'I' and 'you' are empiricallyatma. And when 'I' and 'you' are believed
to be atma, where is the conflictthat would otherwise arise from selfish
motives and desires? Therefore, in a Hindumarriage when conflicts and
differences arise, they can be easily resolved.
The couple consider each otheras the atma, for the atma is pure, genderless,
ageless, and inherently divine.Vivaha itself means 'to lift, to support, to
uphold, to sustain'. Admittedly,both spouses have to make sacrifices and
efforts to imbibe this lofty philosophy. It is not an overnightprocess, more
a lifelong, sacred commitment.
It is this philosophy whichhas made the Vedic marriage a grand success for
thousands of years. Only therecent rise in materialism, primarily based on
superficial and mundane factorsand body consciousness, have begun to ruin
today's Hindu marriages.
The aforementioned sentiments,and a few others, are symbolically depicted and
verbally emphasized by mantraschanted during the actual marriage ceremony,
whose steps we consider..
K Rajaram IRS 22624
--
On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust
We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join
Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup
Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust
Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"KeralaIyers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL5XZooP%2Bg_Dbp3LU9Lktj8Mgcj5hXxdnfaGnOBcknvr%2BOb6Sw%40mail.gmail.com.
--
On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust
We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join
Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup
Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust
Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"KeralaIyers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL4idhNROV9%2BR%2B6TRPZ%2BQjZd1w4PpXB%3DPwmOy_25RtE2XOc2MA%40mail.gmail.com.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Thatha_Patty" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/299264639.5672785.1719046933058%40mail.yahoo.com.