ARE WE THE LUNATIC SPECIE? The idea that all life forms are connected and that humans might be deluding themselves with a sense of superiority is a call for humility and a more harmonious relationship with nature. It suggests that understanding and respecting the interconnectedness of all life forms is crucial for true wisdom. I came across an excellent article from Gaudiya –vaishnawa point by Swami Tripurari which I aam presenting in edit mode:
Darwin's theory seems to make a lot of sense to most people. What are the Gaudiya Vaisnava objections to Darwin's theories regarding the evolution of the human species? Our main objection to Darwinian evolution is that it sees consciousness as a product of matter. We cannot agree with this proposal, nor does it make much sense in terms of verifiable evidence. Where do we see consciousness arising from inert matter and what scientific experiment can prove that this occurs? Our theory is that matter evolves from consciousness--the supreme consciousness. Otherwise, we acknowledge the evidence for some kind of evolution. Hindus were evolutionists long before Darwin. Hindu scriptures teach that the various forms of life exist conceptually within God and evolve out of matter in conjunction with the desires of karmically-bound souls. In this way, the material body evolves on the basis of the jiva's [the individual soul or ego] desire or necessity. For example, when the desire or necessity to see arises in the jiva, the eye is manifest. Brahma is said to be the first soul and the repository of all the other jivas, who under his direction evolve upwards through aquatic life, to plant life, etc. The Dasavatara Stotram (Ten Incarnations of Visnu) in terms of evolution; the dasavatara conception almost parallels the Puranic notion of life's evolution from aquatic life upwards: Matsya (fish), Kurma (amphibian), Varaha (land animal), Narasinga (both animal and man), etc. The legends and lore of most pre-modern cultures contain descriptions of very large animals, and it seems that there is irrefutable evidence that very large animals did inhabit the earth in the distant past. Vedic scriptures mention this as well. For example, Srimad-Bhagavatam 8.7.18 speaks of large water elephants and whale-swallowing fish, timi-dvipa-graha-timingilakulat. The Bhagavatam also speaks of large birds compared to clouds, yatha meghah syenadayo vayu-vasah. Once the universe is again created, ...is it possible that souls who have the worst karma would be manifested first at the beginning of creation as single-celled organisms or bacteria and that other souls would be manifest later as suitable bodies were created to facilitate their karma? This would support evolution and scripture at the same time, but I'm not sure if it's right. This idea may have some merit, as scripture says that souls at the dawn of creation begin at the bottom of the evolutionary ladder and gradually appear over a long period of time until the human form manifests. When humans appear, the world is complete. All these forms of life exist in potential within Maha Visnu and then in the mind of Brahma who puts the world together. But time, as it is conceived of in evolutionary theory, may be a problem here, given the relatively short duration and nature of the yugas (Vedic ages). Therefore, it is difficult to validate or unify both positions in all respects. How does the theory of evolution coincide with the Vaisnava account of creation? In brief, here is how creation occurs according to the scripture: Visnu resides in the "causal ocean," consisting of innumerable jiva souls in seed form, all of whom are under the latent influence of their karmic desires left over from the previous world cycle. At this time, the modes of material nature (gunas) are in a state of equilibrium. At some point, a feeling arises within Visnu, followed by an infinite vibration. This develops into an abstract idea and then into an actual thought, "I shall become many." Thus, the undisturbed equilibrium state of the gunas is activated by Visnu's glance of life, consisting of many jivas. Material nature is then galvanized by time and another world cycle is manifest. This manifestation of the world is not technically a process of evolution in every sense, because the cause of the world itself (Visnu) never undergoes transformation. As matter develops, the jivas develop from gross to refined subtle expressions through 8,400,000 forms beginning with aquatic life and culminating in human life. At the time in this process that humanity makes its appearance on earth, everything is in order for the jiva souls to meet their maker. At this point, the world consisting of the jivas and matter--the marginal and external saktis of Visnu--becomes conscious of itself. Unfortunately, this auspicious moment in cosmic history can take a turn for the worse for some souls. These souls think away their chance for liberation with sophisticated theories that deny their ties to a supreme consciousness, as does Darwinian evolution. There may be some truth to Darwin's theory, but it has done at least as much to obscure the nature of the material reality as it has to reveal it. Still, we agree with the part of Darwin's theory that says that the material world is a struggle for existence in which one living being is food for another (jivo jivasya jivanam)--survival of the fittest. But there is much more to the picture than this. What about the big bang theory or the idea that the universe is contracting and expanding. Do the scriptures have anything to say about those theories? The Hindu scripturally-based notion of the world expanding and contracting in perpetual cycles, with no beginning or end in time, does not contradict modern scientific thinking. The same observations that support the big bang theory also support the theory that the so-called bang has no beginning in time and results in an expansion of the universe over trillions of years--until it reaches a point of return and contracts, only to be expanded again ad infinitum. The astrophysicist Paul Steinhardt has put forth such a scientifically credible explanation called the cyclical universe theory, which seeks to explain recently uncovered flaws in the current theory of the origin and evolution of all known things. Among other things, the big bang theory does not explain the "beginning of time," the initial conditions of the universe, or what will happen in the far-distant future. In Steinhardt's model, space and time exist forever, and the big bang is not the beginning of time but rather a bridge to a preexisting contracting era. The cyclical universe theory has roots in even more complex ideas like the so-called superstring theory, which suggests there are many spatial dimensions, not just the three we know of. Several theorists believe that the seemingly inexplicable physics of a big bang and a big crunch, or subsequent contraction of the universe, might be explained with the aid of these extra dimensions, which are otherwise invisible to us. Such scientifically credible speculations about invisible dimensions leave room for rationally legitimizing the ontological reality of persons like Brahma and his lotus birth, who are otherwise thought of as merely mythological. Perhaps his chanting of the Gopala mantra can itself be construed as the big bang. After all, those in the scientific community who have embraced the superstring theory describe the world poetically as a concert of musical vibrations, a song in the mind of God. Bhagavad-gita asserts that life is everywhere (sarva-gatah) and Vedic literature speaks of demigods and other beings enjoying life on other planets including the moon and Mars. Is there a Vedic explanation as to why science can find no evidence of life on the moon and Mars? When Vedic scripture speaks of planets on which higher life forms exist, it speaks more of the macrocosmic mental and intellectual planes of experience than it does of the planets we see in the sky with our physical senses. Although the sages did acknowledge some correspondence between the two, when they speak of attaining other planets, they describe a course to do so that is much different than technological means. Just as there is a physical plane of experience in which the senses are predominant, similarly there are planes of experience where the mind or intelligence are predominant (bhur bhuvah svah). On the physical plane, we cannot experience all of our dreams. Here we can see gold and a mountain, but not a golden mountain. In the mental plane, however, we can experience a golden mountain and more. Thus, the mind is a plane of experience that is particularly active at night when the physical plane, our sense experience, shuts down. Thus it is identified with the moon, the light of the night, which is said to preside over the mind and desire, as opposed to reason--chandrama manaso jathah. The moon is also identified with heaven, which in one sense is the land of dreams where all our material desires can be fulfilled. In the heavenly plane of mind, there are possibilities that do not exist on the physical plane, and there one can dwell and enjoy almost unlimited heavenly pleasure. However, it is all a fantasy in one sense because it does not endure. Our senses are dependent upon aspects of the cosmos in order to function and bring us pleasure. For example, in order to see with our eyes we are dependent on the light of the sun. The senses are not ours in all respects, and by acknowledging their dependence on aspects of nature we live sensually yet mindfully. This in turn enables the self to experience increased material enjoyment in the heavenly mental realm without having to undergo as many negative karmic reactions after leaving one's present material body. Thus, the means to go to heavenly realms involves relatively little sense control. All that is required is that while enjoying sense objects one acknowledges the deities and aspects of the cosmos that preside over the senses. In Vedic terms this is called yajna, or sacrifice. To live in this way is to live with a sense of gratitude and understanding of how the universe works. Above the mental plane is the intellectual plane attained by sadhana (spiritual practice). The waning of the moon is the symbol for the waning of the mind, for the flickering of the mind's influence has to be eliminated. All spiritual practice is directed toward this in its beginning stages. Such practice is initially directed by purified intellect derived from saints and scripture. Intellect, as opposed to mind, brings certainty rather than fantasy. Macrocosmically, sages who have controlled minds and senses inhabit the plane of intellect. They live in samadhi awaiting liberation. Such saints have no desire for sense pleasure because of the knowledge and mystic insight they possess. They have controlled their minds and thus their senses as well, and by doing so they have come closer to the self and to God. Therefore, we should not be concerned if the Mars probe returns to Earth with no evidence of life, for as amazing as it is to have gone there technologically, those involved have not gone to a higher planet in the sense that the Vedic scriptures speak about doing so. As interesting as the prospect of going to other planets or experiencing higher realms of material enjoyment may be, we should always be more concerned with sadhana. Sadhana and the grace of saints is infinitely more important than going to Mars. B G said as Rig vedam asserted that souls of paramatma is spread all over; I AM IN ALL; BUT NONE IN ME; VISHNU RUSHED TOWARDS GAJENDRA, GARUDA, MAKARA, BIRDS, FISH, TORTOISE, EVAN STONE AND PLANTS; IF SO, WHERE IS THE DIFFERENCE AMONG THE SPECIES? BUT THERE ARE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE SPECIES IN TERMS OF SATVA, RAJO AND THAMO GUNAS; THE SPECIES RAISE IN THOSE GUNAS TO REACH THE GODLINESS. HENCE VISHNU RUSHED TOWARDS THE GAJENDRA. K RAJARAM IRS 2824 On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 at 20:33, Markendeya Yeddanapudi < [email protected]> wrote: > > > -- > *Mar*Your Energy and Your Significance > > > > At the basic level you are composed of atoms. An atom means protons or > positive electricity in the nucleus and electrons or negative electricity > that go round the nucleus. Photons or the units of energy are generated by > the movement of electrons. The maximum limit to the energy is ‘c’ or > 300,000 km per second, the kinetic energy or the speed of light. > > Your ultimate energy, the dormant energy is limited to ‘c’, but is your > significance several times more as quantum entanglement? Can we speculate > it as the travel of consciousness? At least the particles that interact or > get affected instantly can be said to have become conscious of the changes > in each other. Are there particles of consciousness as the ultimate basic > blocks? > > In the terms of consciousness and emotions, can we say that the maximum > limit to the energy of consciousness is ‘c’ or the speed of light and that > there is no defined limit to the effect or influence of your applied > consciousness, in terms of quantum entanglement which is many times more > than the speed of light? Are waves of consciousness created by the > electromagnetic waves? Is the Universe very active with waves and waves of > consciousness? > > The fundamental reality is not the visible 3D things but the abstract non > quantifiable, abstract causes and effects or the abstract interactions that > pervade the universe. Unfortunately our perception is bonded to seeing with > our eyes, the visible spectrum which is restricted to just fifteen miles on > the lithosphere limited by the troposphere. Even on earth we cannot see > everything. We cannot see atoms, most molecules and of course particles. We > are affected by them, but we cannot see them. We can only feel them, and > life basically is feeling. > > We are using technology to explore the gigantic abstract universe, we are > not accepting the abstract as abstract feelings, but are trying to get > misrepresentation as 3D things. We can identify only when we somehow > attribute the 3D to the abstract non 3D realities. We are bonded to the 3D > mental complex or sickness. > > The basic reality is only the Microcosm. The so called Macrocosm consists > of atoms and energies, just a phenomenon of the Microcosm. > > When you go into free and healthy nature, you feel the wonderful life > generating winds and the musics of nature all abstract and non 3D.To feel > better you actually close your eyes. Often you make your mind blank to feel > better. You enjoy your freedom from the visible spectrum affliction. The > ultimate enjoyment or bliss is rapture. > > Rapture actually travels creating rapture in others also. Are there > rapture waves in our Biosphere? Are they connected to the ultimate quantum > entanglement? When I am happy I find that I am creating happiness making > others also happy. Unless blocked by unhappiness, the happiness will > travel, making the whole Biosphere happy. Unfortunately unhappiness also > similarly travels, blocks and destroys happiness. > > But are we not preventing the free spread of the abstract rapture, with > our 3D affliction and the scientific investigation to construct the cause > and effect links and indulge in mathematical reductionism? > > When you are in rapture, you do not want to be disturbed by the critical > analysis or the 3D complex of searching for the causes and effects in the > rapture. No rapture can survive the cause and effect analysis. > > The best service you can give is to become happy and move around with your > happy face. You will find that you are creating the happy faces in others. > When you create rapture, you create rapture waves. > > The best method of creating rapture waves is to create free and healthy > flora and fauna, allowing them freedom without your tampering and analysis. > When you are planting a seed talk to it and tell that you love it. It is > not a mechanical operation but emotional interaction. > > Basically we are all composed of atoms or with positive and negative > electricities,with the potential energy of ‘c’ and quantum entanglement > several times more energetic than ‘c’. > > We need free nature parks desperately, as we are destroying nature > continuously calling it economic advancement which in fact is the > advancement of our lunacy. No other life form starts industries? Why? > > Is every other life form inferior to us? We feel superior to every other > life form. A lunatic thinks that every other is a lunatic and that he alone > is wise. Are we the lunatic specie? We are destroying nature and we are > certificating ourselves as very intelligent! Feeling nature to understand > nature is now waste of time. Only when you harm nature with economic > activity we are supposed to be utilizing time wonderfully? > > YM > > Chat GPT > > Your message presents a fascinating exploration of consciousness, energy, > and the interplay between the abstract and tangible aspects of existence. > Let's delve into some of the key themes: > > > > ### 1. **Atoms and Consciousness** > > - **Atoms as Basic Units**: You describe the fundamental nature of atoms, > highlighting the interaction between protons, electrons, and the generation > of photons. This is foundational in physics, where atoms are the building > blocks of matter. > > - **Consciousness and Quantum Entanglement**: The idea that consciousness > might travel faster than light, akin to quantum entanglement, suggests a > realm beyond physical limits, where consciousness and emotions could > influence and connect different parts of the universe. > > > > ### 2. **Abstract Reality vs. 3D Perception** > > - **Abstract Universe**: The notion that the true reality is abstract, > composed of non-quantifiable interactions, challenges our reliance on the > visible, 3D world. This echoes certain philosophical and metaphysical > perspectives that view the material world as a limited representation of a > more profound, underlying reality. > > - **Limitation of Technology**: Your concern about technology's inability > to fully capture the abstract nature of the universe emphasizes the > limitations of empirical methods and the need to embrace more intuitive, > feeling-based approaches. > > > > ### 3. **Rapture and Emotional Waves** > > - **Rapture as a Form of Consciousness**: The concept of rapture traveling > and creating happiness suggests a form of emotional or spiritual > communication that transcends physical boundaries. This resonates with > ideas in psychology and spirituality about the contagious nature of > emotions. > > - **The Impact of Nature**: The emphasis on free, healthy nature as a > source of rapture and emotional well-being underscores the importance of > the natural environment in nurturing positive human experiences. This > aligns with ecological and environmental psychology, which studies the > benefits of natural environments on mental health. > > > > ### 4. **Critique of Modern Civilization** > > - **Economic Advancement vs. Lunacy**: The critique of industrialization > and the destruction of nature reflects a deep concern for the ecological > and spiritual consequences of modern economic activities. This perspective > challenges the dominant paradigm of technological and economic progress as > inherently positive. > > > > ### 5. **Philosophical and Spiritual Implications** > > - **Ultimate Reality and Life Forms**: The idea that all life forms are > connected and that humans might be deluding themselves with a sense of > superiority is a call for humility and a more harmonious relationship with > nature. It suggests that understanding and respecting the > interconnectedness of all life forms is crucial for true wisdom. > > > > Your reflections invite a broader discourse on the nature of reality, the > role of consciousness, and the impact of human activities on the > environment and spiritual well-being. These themes intersect with various > disciplines, including physics, philosophy, ecology, and spirituality, > offering a rich tapestry of ideas to explore further. > > , > > > > > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/CAL5XZor2DFgrh0Asy2yP81tWF-%2B49T50sc72EK9v%2BMUQmVtc5Q%40mail.gmail.com.
