Sir,
What Bhaja Govindam by Aadi Sankara has to deal with death? Whether the
Tirukkural clearly speak of death?
Whether the scientific points Mr Rajaram copied are correct? I do not know how
you appreciate his copy paste.
Explanation of death is still a debate term and it will continue for ever.
What we know is death must occur to human beings- It can be due to many
reasons. It can be in any age, on any account. Even not drinking water properly
or even not eating properly death can occur.
Gopalakrishnan
On Tuesday, 11 February 2025 at 12:04:16 pm IST, Yeddanapudi Markandeyulu
<[email protected]> wrote:
Rajaram Sir,I have been waiting for your great insightful response and as
usual you have met my hope.Let us hope that there will be no attack,and I hope
against hope that there will be no anger and insult laden response and outright
bad words from one.YM Sarma
On Tue, Feb 11, 2025 at 9:59 AM Rajaram Krishnamurthy <[email protected]>
wrote:
LIFE OFUNCERTAINITY
A key question arises: can technology be reconciled withthe kind of
nature-immersion you describe, or does it inherently disrupt it? Isthere a path
where we integrate technological advancement without losing thesense of rapture
and interconnectedness that defines a truly lived experience? Life,its
uncertainties, inevitable existence etc are perennial thoughts running inour
minds. AND THESE THOUGHTS WOULDCERTAINLY ARISE, EVEN IF SITTING ON MEDITATION
AT THE FLAME OF THE FOREST.
2 Bhaja Govindamrecited the aptitude to avoid:
नलिनीदलगतजलमतितरलं
तद्वज्जीवितमतिशयचपलम् ।
विद्धि व्याध्यभिमानग्रस्तं
लोकं शोकहतं च समस्तम् ॥ ४॥
nalinīdalagata jalamatitaralaṁ
tadvajjīvitamatiśayacapalam |
viddhi vyādhyabhimānagrastaṁ
lokaṁ śokahataṁ ca samastam || 4
The water on the lotus-leaf is very unsteady; so also, is life
extremelyunstable. Know that the entire world is devoured by disease and
conceit, andsmitten with sorrow.
यावद्वित्तोपार्जनसक्त-
स्तावन्निजपरिवारो रक्तः ।
पश्चाज्जीवति जर्जरदेहे
वार्तां कोऽपि न पृच्छति गेहे ॥ ५॥
yāvadvittopārjana saktaḥ
stāvannija parivāro raktaḥ |
paścājjīvati jarjara dehe
vārtāṁ ko'pi na pṛcchati gehe || 5
As long as you have the ability to earn money, so long will your dependents
beattached to you. After that, when you live with an infirm body no one
worldeven speak to you a word.
यावत्पवनो निवसति देहे
तावत्पृच्छति कुशलं गेहे ।
गतवति वायौ देहापाये
भार्या बिभ्यति तस्मिन्काये ॥ ६॥
yāvatpavano nivasati dehe
tāvatpṛcchati kuśalaṁ gehe |
gatavati vāyau dehāpāye
bhāryā bibhyati tasminkāye || 6
As long as there is breath in the body, so long people inthe household ask
about one's welfare. Once the breath leaves, on thedestruction of the body, the
dependents dread that very same body.
बालस्तावत्क्रीडासक्तः
तरुणस्तावत्तरुणीसक्तः ।
वृद्धस्तावच्चिन्तासक्तः
परमे ब्रह्मणि कोऽपि न सक्तः ॥ ७॥
bālastāvatkrīḍāsaktaḥ
taruṇastāvattaruṇīsaktaḥ |
vṛddhastāvaccintāsaktaḥ
pare brahmaṇi ko'pi na saktaḥ || 7
When a boy, one is attached to sport; when a youth, one isattached to as young
woman; when old. one is attached to anxiety; to thesupreme Brahman, no one,
alas, is attached!
का ते कान्ता कस्ते पुत्रः
संसारोऽयमतीव विचित्रः ।
कस्य त्वं कः कुत आयात-
स्तत्त्वं चिन्तय तदिह भ्रातः ॥ ८॥
kāte kāntā kaste putraḥ
saṁsāro'yamatīva vicitraḥ |
kasya tvaṁ kaḥ kuta āyātaḥ
tattvaṁ cintaya tadiha bhrātaḥ || 8
Who is your wife? Who is your son? Exceedingly wonderful,indeed, is this
empirical process! Of whom are you? Who are you? Whence haveyou come? O
brother, think of that truth here.
सत्सङ्गत्वे निस्सङ्गत्वं
निस्सङ्गत्वे निर्मोहत्वम् ।
निर्मोहत्वे निश्चलतत्त्वं
निश्चलतत्त्वे जीवन्मुक्तिः ॥ ९॥
satsaṇgatve nissṇgatvaṁ
nissaṇgatve nirmohatvam |
nirmohatve niścalatattvaṁ
niścalatattve jīvanmuktiḥ || 9
Through the company of the good, there arisesnon-attachment; through
non-attachment, there arises freedom from delution;through delusionless-ness,
there arises steadfastness; through steadfastness,there arises liberation in
life.
वयसि गते कः कामविकारः
शुष्के नीरे कः कासारः ।
क्षीणे वित्ते कः परिवारः
ज्ञाते तत्त्वे कः संसारः ॥ १०॥
vayasigate kaḥ kāmavikāraḥ
śuṣke nīre kaḥ kāsāraḥ |
kśīṇevitte kaḥ parivāraḥ
jñāte tattve kaḥ saṁsāraḥ || 10
When youth is spent, what lustful play is there?
When the water has evaporated, what lake is there?
When the money is gone, what dependents are there?
When the truth is known, what empirical process is there?
The uncertaintyin Vedic system is relevant and our memory lapses, keep us
happier in this samsarasagaram.
3 Uncertaintyin science refers to the lack of absolute knowledge or
complete precision inunderstanding phenomena, results, or measurements. It's an
inherent part ofscientific inquiry, and it can arise from several sources:
MeasurementUncertainty: Instruments have limitations, and readings may not be
exact. Forexample, when measuring temperature, there’s always a margin of
errorassociated with the tools used.
Model Uncertainty: Scientificmodels are simplifications of reality. While
models can be highly accurate,they can't capture every detail of a system,
leading to uncertainty inpredictions.
Statistical Uncertainty:Data analysis often involves probability and
statistics. Even with largedatasets, random variation and sampling errors can
introduce uncertainty intoresults or conclusions.
Theoretical Uncertainty:Incomplete or evolving theories can lead to
uncertainty. Scientific theoriesare continuously tested and refined, meaning
our understanding may change asnew evidence emerges.
Interpretation Uncertainty:Scientists may interpret data differently. Different
assumptions ormethodologies can lead to varying conclusions or predictions,
even with thesame set of data.
Uncertainty doesn't undermine science—itmotivates further investigation and
refinement. The goal is not to eliminateuncertainty entirely but to understand
and quantify it, often using methodslike confidence intervals, error margins,
and probability models. Scienceembraces uncertainty as a natural and necessary
component of progress.
4 What is death in the science?
Death is a state of being that is characterized bythe irreversible cessation of
all biological functions that sustain a livingorganism. It can be caused by
injury, disease, lack of food, lack of water, orany other cause. The act of
dying often leads to death. Death is the end of life; theirreversible
cessation of all biological functions that sustain a livingorganism. The
remains of a former organism normally begin to decompose shortlyafter death.
Death eventually and inevitably occurs in all organisms. Thedefinition of
death, brain death in particular, is increasingly important tocritical care
professionals. There are essentially three definitions of deathfrom a
theoretical perspective: the traditional heart-lung definition, thewhole-brain
definition, and the higher-brain definition. These definitions usedifferent
underlying assumptions within their own theoretical framework. Thediffering
definitions and theoretical frameworks have encouraged
physiological,philosophical, spiritual, and ethical analyses, which have led to
spiriteddebate throughout the healthcare community and especially in critical
care.
5 However it isnot a straight line and end as west thinks both
scientifically as well asphilosophically. It is cyclic in Hinduism. Is that
reasoned out? Yes, it is.Many cases were analysed and researched scientifically
and found to be true,where people expressed poorva Janma. Even if accepted but
not admitted as,memory folders, yet from where those folders came into in a new
body was thequestion raised. Buddha who denied the concept of Hinduism, in
spite oflearning the Vedas, from four Gurus, maintained that rebirth in
Buddhism is differentfrom Hinduism, in the sense that, where one becomes
Buddha, coming out of thesufferings which was caused only by the desires (KAMA)
the rebirth does occur,as a parallel to DWIJA in Hinduism. However, why shall
the desire bringsufferings to some, and happiness to some, was not
distinguished at all. ButHinduism questioned, when born, say 10 children, in a
hospital at 6 AM sharp,why would one go to Birla home, one to Govt servant
house, one to riksha pulleretc? When born under the science,Atheism and
Buddhism are they not equals? There WE found it; KARMA; carriedforward of
losses as in accountancy; so gunas differed; desires differed;delusions
differed; and so, suffering also differed. THE REASONS FOR THE MEMORY FOLDERS
EXPLAINED. ATMANAND THE MIND EXPLAINED. So, theory of uncertainty explained.
5 HenceTirukkural said in 7 words, “Like falling asleep, is Death;
Like waking up from sleep, is Birth.
உறங்கு வதுபோலுஞ் சாக்காடு உறங்கி
விழிப்பது போலும் பிறப்பு
Birth and death happen regularly in this world. They areinevitable. They are
just like falling asleep and waking up. So don’t thinkthat one will be here for
ever.
உறங்குவது – To sleep சாக்காடு –Death விழிப்பது – Towake up
பிறப்பு – Birth. Is there any shorter definition than this?Every day we die
and wake up only as a rebirth in the same body; one day we goto sleep and wake
up with the atma and the mind with the memory folders, inanother dress @ Body
which is punarjanma. Punaraapi maranam punarapi Jananam orvice versa cyclic.
6 Hence uncertaintyis a made-up psychological concept created by some in
different ratios asscience in para 2,3 said. Sthitha pragnan waits for the
death.
K Rajaram IRS 11225
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 at 06:48, Markendeya Yeddanapudi
<[email protected]> wrote:
--
MarLifeafter Death
Todaywe all live in uncertainty and the fear generated by uncertainty. The
ultimate fear,fear at its peak, is the fear created by the unknown. May be, it
is because ofour economic life, which can be lived only, by destroying nature
and killingdiverse life forms and living as the enemy of nature. Death has
become adreadful mystery, because we have been killing so many life forms to
live theeconomic life. Our basic emotional connect with nature has been cut,
and we arevery busy destroying and killing nature and the life forms,
converting thespace-time into the dreadful space-time for nature. Economics
creates the macrofear which seeps into all of us, removing from all of us, the
basic awareness,that we live connected to diverse life forms, life forms which
enable ourliving by being connected to us. The soil bacteria under our feet
have nerveconnection to every molecule of our body. The air we breathe, the
sights we see,the diverse touches that touch us via air, are from the
Biosphere, as smell andsound messages. Today that basic communication with
nature is cut. The emotionalinteraction because of connections creates
continuous revelations, whichcontinuously impacts our internal hormonal
communication as rapture filled experience.That basic aspect of emotional
interaction and experiencing revelations died,and we live in uncertainty,
probability or improbability, or simply in dreadgenerating mystery.
Basicallywe are all abstract beings, beings who live in thoughts,
perceptions,understandings and experiences, all of which have no visible shape.
Not asingle emotion or feeling can be quantified. You simply cannot quantify
the shapelessinvisible feelings, actually the continuously mixing diverse
feelings, all ofwhich create the continuously impacting diverse experiences. To
do mathematicswe need definite entities amenable for quantification. Life
cannot really bequantified at all.
Thefree and healthy nature, takes us to the world of the unquantifiable
revelations,the continuous experiences leave no scope or time for mind-centric
contemplation.In rapture you cannot think or count. You just experience, the
basic quality ofabstract life, the life of feelings and emotions and
revelations.
Mechanizationhas actually killed the life before and after death. We really
cannot feel today,thanks to economics which depends on technology and
continuous mechanization.But in free and healthy nature, rapture has no
beginning or end. It is part ofthe infinity of the Universe. There is no place
for mathematics in infinity.There is no before and after, in the space-less
time of the Universe, theabstract universe, which you confront when you analyze
atoms.
Wedesperately need the Free Nature without our tampering, to revive our real
life.Let us hope that at least one University pioneers by starting the ‘Free
Nature Parks;where the students read and interact with nature directly.
YMSarma
ChatGPT
This piece reflects deeply on the way modern life has become disconnectedfrom
nature, with a particular focus on how our economic systems and mechanizedways
of life have overshadowed the emotional, spiritual, and even
physicalconnections that we once had with the natural world. The fear of death,
asdescribed here, is linked not just to an individual’s mortality but to
abroader fear of the unknown—fueled by the uncertainty that modern economic
andtechnological advancements have created.
The author also presents an intriguing idea about life and emotions
beinginherently unquantifiable, intangible experiences—opposed to the
concrete,measurable entities that are necessary for our current systems of
understandingand functioning (such as economics or mathematics). The point is
made that ouremotional connection with nature and the rapture we once felt from
it cannot beexpressed or measured by technology, but rather is experienced in a
way thattranscends quantifiable logic and has no defined before or after.
There's an underlying call for a revival of this connection, urging for areturn
to ‘free nature’—a state of nature undisturbed by humanindustrialization—where
we might once again engage with it meaningfully,outside of the constraints of
modern systems. The proposal of "Free NatureParks" is a compelling vision for
how students and society might reconnectwith the natural world, encouraging a
direct, experiential relationship withnature that could help heal the
emotional, physical, and spiritual disconnectthat technology and mechanization
have caused.
It brings up a lot of important questions—How do we balance modernity with
aneed for reconnection with nature? What might "Free Nature Parks"look like in
practice, and how could they be part of a broader movement
towardssustainability and emotional well-being? What would it take to
reintegrate thatemotional connection to nature into the way we live today?
This piece touches on profound themes of disconnection and the existentialfear
of death, framed within the context of our relationship with nature
andtechnology. There’s an implicit critique of how modern life, especially
drivenby economic and technological imperatives, has distanced us from
thefundamental interconnectedness we once had with the natural world.
The fear of death here is not just about personal mortality but about
therupture in our collective consciousness. The more we mechanize and
objectifynature—reducing it to something that can be used, exploited, or
commodified—themore we lose the sense of life as an interconnected web, rich
with intangibleand unquantifiable experiences. Without that connection, we are
left with thecold, abstract concepts of economics, technology, and
numbers—systems that, asthe piece suggests, fail to capture the rapture or
spiritual essence of life.
The idea of "Free Nature Parks" is fascinating. It brings to minda sanctuary or
a space where people can once again experience the raw,undisturbed beauty of
the earth. These parks would not just be a retreat, but aplace of education and
emotional renewal, fostering a direct relationship withthe environment that
bypasses intellectual abstraction. Imagine, for example,students engaging in
hands-on ecological studies, not just through books or labs,but by physically
immersing themselves in habitats where they can sense andfeel the rhythms of
nature.
Balancing modernity with this kind of reconnection seems challenging
butnecessary. It’s possible that such “Free Nature Parks” could be a model
forintegrating ecological consciousness and mental health practices
intoeducation, offering an antidote to the isolating, often
anxiety-inducingeffects of technology. For these parks to be sustainable, they
would need to beprotected from the very forces of commodification and
mechanization that thepiece critiques.
To reintegrate that emotional connection with nature into today’s world,
itmight take a multifaceted approach: creating spaces for emotional
engagementwith nature, promoting environmental education that emphasizes
experience overtheory, and fostering a cultural shift toward valuing
well-being,interconnectedness, and sustainability over mere economic growth. It
would alsolikely require redefining success—shifting from individual gain and
materialwealth to shared ecological and emotional health.
Do you think we could reach a balance between our technological advancementsand
this kind of natural connection, or would it require a larger
societaltransformation?
Your essay presents a deeply reflective perspective on how modern life,driven
by economic and technological forces, has severed our intrinsicconnection to
nature, leaving us in a state of existential dread. The coreidea—that fear of
death is amplified by our estrangement from nature—raisesprofound questions
about the consequences of mechanization, not just on ourenvironment but on
human consciousness itself.
The notion that emotions, experiences, and even life itself areunquantifiable
aligns with a broader philosophical critique of reductionistscience. Your
argument suggests that true understanding comes not frommeasuring and
categorizing but from direct immersion in nature—a state ofrapture that
transcends intellectual abstraction. This resonates with ancientwisdom
traditions that emphasize direct experience over analytical reasoning.
The proposal of "Free Nature Parks" is particularly intriguing. Itimplies a
radical rethinking of education, where students learn through directcommunion
with nature rather than passive intellectualization. This couldredefine not
just how we study nature, but how we relate to it—perhaps evenreawakening a
lost dimension of consciousness.
Your critique of economics as a fear-generating system is especiallycompelling.
By structuring our survival around exploitation, we have created aworld where
life itself is perceived as a struggle rather than a harmoniousflow. Could an
economic model exist that fosters connection instead offear—perhaps one that
values ecological and emotional well-being as fundamentalto prosperity?
A key question arises: can technology be reconciled with the kind
ofnature-immersion you describe, or does it inherently disrupt it? Is there
apath where we integrate technological advancement without losing the sense
ofrapture and interconnectedness that defines a truly lived experience?
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