Dear friends,You may read what is posted by me and then the response of Mr.
Rajaram, who find fault with me presenting wrong information. One can judge
himself and respond. I am not having a copy of the Vedas . I relay on Google
search information or points told in postings I compiled. If Google provides
wrong information, I have nothing to add.Gopalakrishnan
On Sunday, 22 March 2026 at 06:30:25 pm IST, Rajaram Krishnamurthy
<[email protected]> wrote:
KRATU 2
1 Asusual a lot of copy and paste carried out without any explanation or
expansionsor why it is so etc.; if Gandhi is stated to be a freedom fighter,
well it istelling there was someone called Gandhi with an end card. Then my
father may besuperior to Gandhi even. All will pass by. When told how Gandhi
became fatherof the nation then only one will get attracted. Google will tell
only onesentence. But reader must sift and understand and make others go
through and notSCAN A COPY AND PASTE.
2 VISHWADEVAS:
Viśvadeva(विश्वदेव).—(-vaḥ)A Viśvadeva, a deity of a particular class:
Viśve Devāḥ [Pāṇini’s definitiongiven above]
Gopalakrishnanwrote that “Viswadevatha refers to acollective group
of Vedic deities regarded as the "universal gods" or"all-gods," holding a
position of considerableimportance in the Rig Veda and in Hindu ritualistic
observances. Theyare generally worshipped together to represent the totality of
divine forces,ensuring that no specific deity is overlooked.
KR what is the relevance in Rig veda?
मा । वः । एनः । अन्यकृतम् । भुजेम । मा । तत् । कर्म । वसवः । यत् । चयध्वे ।
विश्वस्य । हि । क्षयथ । विश्वदेवाः । स्वयम् । रिपुः । तन्वम् । रिरिषीष्ट ॥6 51
7
mā | vaḥ | enaḥ | anya-kṛtam| bhujema | mā | tat | karma | vasavaḥ | yat |
cayadhve | viśvasya | hi | kṣayatha| viśva-devāḥ |svayam | ripuḥ | tanvam |
ririṣīṣṭa
“Let us not suffer for thesin committed by another; let us not do that which,
Vasus, you prohibit; yourule universal gods, over the universe; (so provide
that) mine enemy mayinflict injury on his own person n.” Rig Veda 6.51.7 is a
mantrarequesting protection from the consequences of sins committed by others
andasking the Vasus (deities) to prevent the devotee from committingforbidden
acts, while ensuring enemies suffer for their own misdeeds. Ṛṣi (sage/seer):
ṛjiśvāḥ; Devatā (deity/subject-matter): viśvedevā:;
R V 10 125 1:अहं रुद्रेभिर्वसुभिश्चराम्यहमादित्यैरुत विश्वदेवैः । अहं
मित्रावरुणोभा बिभर्म्यहमिन्द्राग्नी अहमश्विनोभा ॥
ahaṃ rudrebhir vasubhiścarāmy aham ādityair uta viśvadevaiḥ | aham
mitrāvaruṇobhā bibharmy ahamindrāgnī aham aśvinobhā ||
“I proceed with the Rudras, with theVasus, with the Ādityas, and with the
Viśvedevās; I support both Mitra and Varuṇa,Agni and Indra, and the two Aśvinṣ”
Details:
Ṛṣi (sage/seer): vāgāmbhṛṇī;
Devatā(deity/subject-matter): vāgāmbhṛṇī;
[WIKIPEDIA WRONGLY QUOTES RV 8TH MANDALA STATING THAT KRATUAND FATHER, IN- LAW
AND 60000 PIGMIS ARE QUOTED IN 8TH MANDALA BUTWHAT IS TRUTH?]
Rig Veda 8.42.3
इमां धियं शिक्षमाणस्य देव क्रतुं दक्षं वरुण सं शिशाधि । ययाति विश्वा दुरिता
तरेम सुतर्माणमधि नावं रुहेम ॥
imāṃ dhiyaṃ śikṣamāṇasya deva kratuṃ dakṣaṃ varuṇasaṃ śiśādhi | yayāti viśvā
duritā tarema sutarmāṇam adhi nāvaṃ ruhema ||
“Divine Varuṇa, animate the sacred acts ofme engaging in this your worship; may
we ascend thesafe-bearing vessel by whichwe may cross all difficulties.”
Commentary by Sāyaṇa: Ṛgveda-bhāṣya
Animate the sacred acts: kratum dakṣam =sharpenthe knowledge and power
deva[noun], vocative,singular, masculine“Deva; Hindu deity; king; deity; Indra;
deva [word]; God;Jina; Viśvedevās; mercury; naturalphenomenon; gambling.”
kratuṃ < kratum < kratu[noun],accusative, singular, masculine “yajña; decision;
plan; deliberation;intelligence; Kratu; will; kratu [word]; desire;
resoluteness; ritual.”
dakṣaṃ < dakṣam < dakṣa[noun],accusative, singular, masculine “Dakṣa; ability;
cock; fitness; will;purpose; disposition; cock.” {KR THAT IS WHY WE ARE
SUPPOSED TO SIFT}
VISHWADEVA IS BRAHMAM AS NIRGUNA ANDIN VARIOUS FORMS (THAT ISWHY 3339
GODS ETC) AS SAGUNA. THIS IS EVIDENT FROM 10 125 8 R V NOTES OFADI SHANKARA AS
SEEN BELOW:
In Rig Veda 10.125.8, it isdeclared that, I breathe forth like the wind, giving
form to all createdworlds. Beyond the heaven, beyond this earth, so vast am I
in greatness.
This depicts the seer of themantra’s realisation of Brahman. They observe
themselves as that and all asexisting within them. They have realised it as the
source of one’s being andall things. It is from Brahman that all (form) is
‘breathed forth’. Establishedin the awareness of the Self, one traces them to
their source, where there isno duality such as ‘heaven and earth’.
The breath being spoken of is not literal, but used as a way ofunderstanding
how the universe appears separate. The meaning of Brahman is tiedto this notion
of breath, as the root of the word, ‘brih‘, means “to expand orbreathe”.
The idea of breathing orexhaling as the appearance of form is later found in
the Upanishads. Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 2.4.10states, As smoke billows out
inall directions from a fire that has been laid with damp fuel, so is
everything breathed outfrom this great being.
This is the same knowledgewhose realisation is conveyed in Rig Veda 10.125.8.
Just as the smoke createdby the fire is not separate from it, the world is not
separate from the Self orBrahman.In his commentary to Brihadaranyaka Upanishad
2.4.10, Shankaraelaborates, the universe, at the time of its origin as also
prior to it, isnothing but Brahman. As before the separation of the sparks,
smoke, embers andflames, all these are nothing but fire, and therefore there is
but onesubstance, fire, so it is reasonable to infer that this universe
differentiatedinto names and forms is, before its origin, nothing but Pure
Intelligence. It is theundifferentiated universe, prior to name and form, which
is nothing butBrahman, that is the subject of Rig Veda 10.125.8 and
Brihadaranyaka Upanishad2.4.10. This is the essence of Advaita which all
teachings point to the realityof.
Shankara goes on to say,
The differentiation of formsinvariably depends on the manifestation of their
names. Name and form are thelimiting adjuncts of the Supreme Self, of which,
when they are differentiated,it is impossible to tell whether they are
identical with or different from It,as is the case with the foam of water. It
is name and form in all their stagesthat constitute relative existence. Hence
name has been compared to breath. Bythis statement it is implied that form too
is like breath. This explains theassociation between form and breath. The
breath and descriptions of creationrefer to the differentiation of name and
form or duality, what Shankara calls“relative existence.” It is relative
because it depends on taking duality to bereal and name and form separate from
Brahman. When Advaita is realised, onesees that there is no differentiation and
it was merely a projection of themind. Therefore, no such creation ever took
place in reality. The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad and Shankara’sBhashya shine
light on Rig Veda 10.125.8. The “created worlds” are thedistinctions we imagine
which give the impression of duality being real.Saying, “I breathe forth” these
worlds and my ‘”greatness” is beyond all, meansthe same as the mahavakyas, such
as ‘I am Brahman’ . It is the recognition thatone is no different from ‘that’,
the source of all name and form. In this way,not only does the mantra contain
the truth of Advaita, but also the realisationitself. AND THESE IDEAS ARE
REPEATED IN Vājasaneyisaṃhitā 2, 22.] [Harivaṃśa 11294.] devādaśa smṛtāḥ
[Jaṭādhara] in [Varāhamihira’s Bṛhajjātaka S. 44,6.] THUS,VISHWA DEVA IS NOT A
GOD AS MENTIONED BY GOPALAKRISHNAN. VISHWAMITRA, VISHWA MOORTHY, VISHWA DEVA
AREALL SYMBOLIC.
The Vishvedevas (विश्वेदेवाः,viśve-devāḥ), often translated as the
"All-Gods" or "UniversalGods," are a significant group of deities in the Rig
Veda. Dharmawiki
Vishvedevas and the number 58: and 2 I quoted above ANDALL THOSE HAVE NOTHING
TO DO WITH KRATU RISHI
58 Independent Suktas: In theRig Veda, besides isolated mantras, there are
fifty-eight (58) independenthymns (suktas) dedicated to the praise of the
Vishvedevas.
Definition: They representthe Vedic gods taken together as a whole, rather than
a single specific deity.They are often invoked together in one group to ensure
no divinity is omittedfrom a ritual. They are frequently associated with time
and space, making themimportant to Vedanga Jyotisha (Vedic astronomy). While
they are a group, theyare sometimes described in hymns as being led by Indra.
In some instances, theVishvedevas in the Rig Veda represent all Devas
collectively, whereas, in laterPuranic literature, they are enumerated
specifically as a group of ten, oftenassociated with rituals (Pitra-Karma). The
hymns dedicated to them arescattered throughout theRig Veda, including in
Mandalas 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 10.
II GOPALAKRISHNAN:” TenSpecific Deities: While sometimes
representing all gods, they are specificallylisted in the Puranas as ten:
Kratu, Daksha, Vasu, Satya, Kala, Kama, Dhrti,Kuru, Shankumatra, and Vamana.
KR: DHARMAWIKI SHOULD HAVE BEEN READ WELLBEFORE INKING BY GOPALA. According
to the Bhavishya Purana (1.125.12) and theVishnu Purana, these ten are
specifically identified as:
Kratu (क्रतु)
Daksha (दक्ष)
Vasu (वसु)
Satya (सत्य)
Kala (काल)
Kama (काम)
Dhrti (धृति)
Kuru (कुरु)
Shankumatra (शङ्कुमात्र)
Vamana (वामन)
Details Regarding the Vishvedevas:
Origin: They aredescribed as the children of Vishva, the daughter of Daksha
Prajapati, andDharma. [KR: VISHWA DEVAS MEANSDIFFERENT HERE AS CHILDREN OF
VISHWA AND DEVAS ABOVE HUMAN. RIG VEDA VISHWADEVA IS BRAHMAM AS PER ADI
SHANKARA]
Role: They are worshipped atthe Shraddha ceremony (ancestral rites) and are
meant to be honored daily.[KR THUS CONNECTED TRO SHRADHAM]
Vishvamitra's Curse: In somenarratives, such as in the Markandeya Purana, it is
mentioned that theVishvedevas were cursed by Sage Vishvamitra to be born on
earth as humans,where they were born as the five sons of Draupadi (the
Upapandavas). These are not to be confusedwith the Dashavatara (ten avatars) of
Lord Vishnu, nor the Dashamahavidya (tengoddesses) of Tantrism.
III Yes, the Kratu Gotra is directlyconnected to the stars in ancient
Indian astronomy and mythology. The sageKratu is considered one of the
Saptarishi (seven great sages). Here are theconnections: [KR GOPALA NEVER
STATEDTHE REASONS BUT MADE A CONFUSING STATEMENT AS IF EXCLUSIVE STAR
CONNECTION ONLYTO KRATU; BUT NEITHER REVATI NOR KETU HAVE ANY MEANINGFUL
DEFINITIONS.]
The Star Connection: The seven rishis are identifiedwith the seven main stars
of the Saptarishi constellation, known in Westernastronomy as the Big Dipper
(part of Ursa Major).
Specific Star: SageKratu is traditionally identified with the star Dubhe (Alpha
Ursae Majoris).
Gotra Lineage: The sevensages (sometimes including Agastya as an eighth) are
the ancestors of thevarious Gotras of Brahmins, with Kratu being one of the
foundational GotraRishis.
Role and Legend: Kratu isdescribed as a mind-born son of Brahma (Manasaputra).
He is sometimesassociated with the Nakshatra (lunar mansion) Revati,which is
connected to the Sun, but he is more popularly recognizedas one of the
Saptarishi stars in the Northern sky.
[KR HENCE GOTRA HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE 27STARS OTHER THAN SAPTA RISHI
TRAVELLED THROUGH ALL 27 STARS BY ONE SIDDANTHAABOUT WHICH (HAVE I WRITTEN
ALREADY?) ELSE WILL WRITE ABOUT IT SOON
K RAJARAM IRS 22326
On Sun, 22 Mar 2026 at 11:58, 'gopala krishnan' via KeralaIyers
<[email protected]> wrote:
SAGEKRATU-PART2
CONTINUEDFROM PART 1
Sage Kratu appears inVaivaswatha Manvantara also
Rishi Kratu was again born in the Vaivaswata Manvantara because of Lord Shiva's
boon.
In this Manvantara he had no family. It is reported that he was bornfrom the
hand of LordBrahma, whereas other Rishis are described as having been born
fromother parts of the body of Lord Brahma. (Reference –Bhagavat).
Sage Kratu adopts sageAgasthia’s son Idvaaha
As he has no family and no children in this Manvantara, Kratuadopted Agastya’s
son, Idhvaaha.
Kratu is considered as one of the Bhargavas. In Matsya Puranait is said that
his mother's name was Poulomi. He is also considered as one of the Viswa Devas.
Since Viswam Deva is sradha samrakshaka, I thought to get more details from
Google search
Sage Kratu-A ViswamDeva
Viswadevatha refers toa collective group of Vedic deities regarded as the
"universal gods"or "all-gods," holding a position of considerable importance in
the Rig Veda and in Hinduritualistic observances. They are generally worshipped
together torepresent the totality of divine forces, ensuring that no specific
deity isoverlooked.
Key aspects ofViswadevatha include:
Vedic Significance: In the Rig Veda, fifty-eight independent hymns arededicated
to them, and they are often connected with time, space,and the maintenance of
Cosmic Order (Rita). They are often described in theVedas as having a unique,
high number, sometimes enumerated as 3339.
Puranic Origin: According to the Vishnu Purana andVayu Purana, the Vishvedevas
were the sons of Vishva (a daughter of DakshaPrajapati) and Dharma.
Shraddha Rituals: They are of primary importance in Shraddha ceremonies
(rituals for departedancestors). They are considered Shraddha samrakshakas
(guardians of Shraddha)and are given the first preference in seating and
offerings before ancestorsare invoked.
Ten Specific Deities: While sometimes representing allgods, they are
specifically listed in the Puranas as ten: Kratu, Daksha, Vasu, Satya,Kala,
Kama, Dhrti, Kuru, Shankumatra, and Vamana.
Kratu Gotra
Kratu Gotra refers to a lineage originating from the ancientVedic Rishi Kratu,
one of the seven mental sons (Saptarishis) of Lord Brahma.In Vedic astrology,
this lineage is linked to specific stars—Punarvasu, Chitra,Uttarashadha, and
Revati—and is used for ancestral identification and marriagecompatibility,
traditionally deemed improper to marry within the same Gotra.
Key Details AboutKratu Gotra and Rishi Kratu:
Astrological Linkage: The Indian Knowledge System Academyblog mentions that the
Gotra of Kratu is associated with the Nakshatras:Punarvasu, Chitra,
Uttarashadha, and Revati.
Significance: Individuals belonging to the Kratu Gotra are believed to have a
lineageoriginating from sage Kratu.
Kratu Gotra individuals typically honour this Vedic rishi totrace their lineage
back to the progenitor creators.
In Vedic astrology and Hindu tradition, the Pravara of a Gotra refersto the
specific "most excellent" sages who are ancestors of thatlineage.
Pravara for KratuGotra
Sage Kratu is unique because, although he is one of theoriginal Saptarishis
(Seven Great Sages), he is often described as having no human progeny tocarry
on his specific name as a standalone major Gotra in the same way asKashyapa or
Vasishta.
However, in classifications where Kratu is listed as aGotra-pravartaka (lineage
propagator), he typically falls under the AngirasaGana.
Associated Gana: Angirasa (specifically the Vishnuvruddhagroup).
Pravara Type: Most lineages associated with this group followa Tryarsheya
(three-sage)Pravara.
The Sages: While specific regional variations exist, theprimary Pravara for
those in the Kratu lineage under the Angirasa umbrellatypically includes:
Angirasa,Vishnuvruddha,Kratu
Marriage Rules: Because Kratu is part of the Angirasa family,individuals in
this Gotra cannot marry those from other Gotras sharing the samePravara sages
(like Vishnuvruddha) to avoid Sagotra marriage.
Spiritual Archetype: He represents the spirit of sacrifice,devotion, and
righteousness. His lineage is often associated with possessing spiritual
mastery andacting as an "advisor to the gods".
Symbolic Significance
Relationship with Ketu: Some esoteric interpretations linkthe name "Kratu" to
an active or enlightened state of the lunar nodeKetu, representing supreme
spiritual power and the Chaitanya (enlightenedstate) of the soul.
Where do we have KratuGothra brahmins in India
In India, Kratu Gotra Brahmins are primarily found in North India,particularly
in regions that historically fall under the Pancha-Gaudaclassification (North
Indian Brahmin groups). While Sage Kratu is one of theoriginal Saptarishis,
thisGotra is considered rare compared to major lineages like Bharadwaja or
Kashyapabecause tradition often describes Kratu as having "no human
progeny"(his children being the 60,000 tiny Valakhilyas).
Primary Regions &Communities
Uttarakhand &Uttar Pradesh: Manylineages trace back to the Kumaon and Garhwal
hills. Brahmins in these regionsoften identify with specific Rishis of the
Saptarishi group, including Kratu.
Rajasthan &Haryana: Some GaurBrahmins in districts like Sikar (Rajasthan) and
Gurgaon (Haryana) maintainstrict Gotra records that include less common
lineages.
Gujarat: Communities such as the Audichya orNagar Brahmins occasionally list
Kratu as an ancestral Rishi in theirexhaustive Gotra-Pravara registries.
South India (AndhraPradesh, Telangana, Tamil Nadu): Among Telugu and Tamil
Brahmins, Kratu Gotra is exceptionally rare.
Most South Indian Brahmins belong to the Pancha-Dravidagroup, where Kratu is
more often invoked during Sandhyavandanam(daily prayers) as one of the
Saptarishis rather than as a primary familyGotra.
Identification &Surnames
Because Gotra is a lineage (not a surname), Brahmins of thisGotra can carry
various common surnames depending on their region:
North India: Sharma,Pandey, Tiwari, or Bhatt.
Odisha: Surnames like Panda, Dash, or Rath mayoccasionally belong to this
lineage within the Utkala Brahmin community.
Why it is difficultto find
The scarcity of the Kratu Gotra is due to the Vedic myth thatSage Kratu did not
have regular earthly children, leading many families who might have originated
fromhis spiritual lineage to eventually merge into broader groups like the
Angirasaor Vishnuvruddha Ganas over thousands of years.
The Valakhilyas- childrenof sage Kratu- Addition
In thePuranas and the Mahabharata, Sage Kratu and his wife (Kriya orSannati)
are said to have 60,000 children known as the Valakhilyas. Thesecelestial sages
are famously described as being the size of a thumb (pigmysages), yet they
possessed immense spiritual power and were as resplendent asthe sun's rays.
2. Spiritual Lineage vs.Physical Stature
Celestial vs. Human: The Valakhilyas areconsidered celestial beings (guardians
of the Sun's chariot) and practicedstrict celibacy (Brahmacharya). They are
notconsidered the biological ancestors of modern humans in a physical sense.
Summary: While the "sons" of Sage Kratu aredescribed as thumb-sized in
scripture, this is a symbolic or celestialattribute. The humandescendants of
this Gotra have normal physical statures like any othercommunity.
Adoption & Propagation: According to the Matsya Purana becauseSage Kratu's
celestial sons did not have earthly progeny, he adopted Idhmavaha(the son of
Sage Agastya) to continue his lineage in the human world.
The Gotra System: Modern Brahmins belonging to the KratuGotra trace their
spiritual and patrilineal heritage to Sage Kratu through this adopted lineor
through the broader Angirasa or Agastya Ganas.
Idhmavaha- Kratu’sadopted son in Vaivaswatha manvantara- Details .
Idhmavāha also known as Tridasyu or Dṛḍhasyu, is a figure from Hindumythology,
specifically renowned as the son of the great sage Agastya and his wife
Lopāmudrā.He is featured in narratives within the Mahābhārata and various
Puranas.
Here are the detailed aspects of Idhmavāha:
Birth and Background
Parents: Son of Sage Agastya and Princess Lopāmudrā.
The Choice of Son: Before his birth, Sage Agastya askedLopāmudrā to choose
between having 1,000 ordinary sons, 100 sons of highability, 10 sons with the
worth of 100, or a single son with the wisdom andpower of 1,000 sons. Lopāmudrā
chose the latter—a single, noble, andextraordinary son.
Long Gestation: Tridasyu remained in his mother’s womb for seven years before
being born.
Birth Accomplishment: He began to recite the Vedas from thevery moment of his
birth.
Significance of the Name"Idhmavāha"
Meaning: The name Idhmavāha means "one who carriesfirewood" (Idhma =
sacrificial fuel/twigs; vāha = carrier/bringer).
Reason: As he grew up, he was tasked with bringing smallpieces of firewood to
feed the sacred fire for his father’s daily homa(sacrifice).
Key Characteristics andRole
Drdhasyu: Another name for him is Drdhasyu, and he was knownfor being a
celebrated poet.
Dedications to Dharma: Idhmavāha is often portrayed as anexample of an obedient
and knowledgeable son dedicated to the spiritualpursuits of his parents.
Vedic Knowledge: He is highly recognized in the stories as ahighly
knowledgeable person in the Vedas and Upanishads.
A natural doubt arise under what condition such a precious child was given by
sage Agasthyafor adoption by sage Kratu
Google search give thefollowing information
In most major Hindu scriptural traditions, Idhmavaha (Drdhasyu) is recognizedas
the only son of Sage Agastya and Lopamudra.
Key Context
The Single Son Tradition: Most sources, including the Rigvedaand major Puranas,
focus exclusively on Idhmavaha because his birth fulfilled the specific
spiritual purpose of redeemingAgastya's ancestors from a curse.
The River Kaveri: In South Indian tradition, Lopamudra herself is said to
havetransformed into the Kaveri River to serve humanity, which is often viewed
asher "other" lasting legacy beyond her son.
Conclusion: Agastya did not have other children later in thesense of a
traditional growing family; his singular focus remained on hisascetic duties
and the preservation of Vedic knowledge through his one"precious" son given in
adoption to sage Kratu
I will continue innext posting
Posted by RGopalakrishnan compiling information from websites and
Gopalakrishnan.22-3-2026
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