ravenface,
A couple of things.
First, I disagree with you that the Avengers films have been "director
proof." There are plain differences in the directing and filming
style between Favreau, Branagh, and Louis Leterrier. I have not seen
Captain America so I can make no assessment regarding Johnston's
handling of the material, but I don't consider Honey I Shrunk the
Kids, Jumanji, October Sky, and The Rocketeer to be "garbagey."
I am not sure how you are defining a "hit" but Branagh's adaptions
over the 2000s have all been pretty roundly hailed in the US. His
only real big misfire was Sleuth. Favreau had a huge hit in 2003 with
Elf (remember, he did not direct Swingers). Leterrier has been less
successful but both of his Transporter films were very popular with
action fans and were popular enough to launch the career of Jason
Statham. Also, Unleashed (Danny the Dog) received strong reviews
too. All three of these men have clearly different visual styles
which are very evident in their Marvel movies as well.
Also, Whedon is writing The Avengers, so by your theory he still
directly impacts the quality of the film. I don't want the Avengers
film to be "decent enough." Remember that Whedon penned what is
widely considered the worst piece of dialogue in the entire X-Men
franchise. ("Do you know what happens to a toad when it is struck by
lightning? The same thing as everything else.")
Secondly, I do not think it is fair to compare Kirby's Build-A-Friend
to Melfina/River from Outlaw Star/Firefly. The Build-A-Friend is a
mass produced robot which is sold in a box and then assembled. The
River bit from the first episode of Firefly is lifted whole cloth from
the Melfina bit in Outlaw Star. In addition, the context makes the
swipe even more obvious. Both are space-faring science fiction shows
which try to be a Space Western (to varying degrees of success -- I
will give Firefly the nod here because Outlaw Star starts out very
Western but takes a hard turn to straight Space Opera by the end),
featuring a roguish pilot in the Han Solo mold and a passenger
smuggling a mystery box onto the ship to be revealed as a girl at the
very end of the episode. It's not just that there is a girl in a
box. It's the entire milieu.
Thirdly, I cannot believe you really think that originality is
overrated. There's a lot of difference between homage (your Star Wars
example) and swiping (Outlaw Star/Firefly). I never said that stuff
is (and I quote) "automatically bad because it wasn't first." You
said that. I said that I knew Firefly was going to suck when one of
the major plots of the first episode was swiped from a different show
whole cloth. I said that Whedon's ear for dialogue is poor. I said
that his visual style is choppy. Firefly had all of Whedon's typical
problems.
Finally, yes, Ferngully sucks.
~Luke
On Oct 12, 7:20 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> It seems like these Marvel movies are director-proof. Like, everyone whose
> made one so far has been...available. Branaugh hadn't had a hit in way over
> ten (20?) years, Favreau the same. Don't even know who did the second Hulk.
> Johnston (Capt. America) has a garbagey career. All you have to do is show
> up, tell the lead where to stand and turn off the lights when you leave. The
> scripts are (pretty) good and people are willing to forgive a lot because
> they know everything is part of a large story. Great, great marketing on
> these things.
>
> So, Joss Whedon shouldn't mess it up, whatever you think of him. For what
> it's worth, I've never taken to Firefly (I may try again if my relationship
> busts up and I need material to attract a new chick. Firefly? More like
> Spanish Fly!) (The chick in the box thing is on the cover of OMAC #1, which
> I think predates...everything.)
>
> Originality is over-rated. Not going to ding the guy for copying stuff, but
> do have to praise the guy for making a likable female hero. Buffy, while not
> MY exact cup of tea, was fun with some really excellent arcs. The show ripped
> off Promethea and everything else, but nobody read Promethea. Stuff isn't
> automatically bad because it wasn't first. You can't tell a kid who loves
> Avatar it sucks because it was a Ferngully ripoff. They didn't see Ferngully
> (and Ferngully sucks). Can't tell anyone not to like Star Wars because it was
> a Kurasowa ripoff. If something makes you happy, it makes you happy.
>
> Whedon's stuff "plays" like fan fic, but it's decent-enough and exciting
> enough and chicks had someone to cheer for.
>
> If Avengers is good or bad, it won't have anything to do with him. It'll be
> the story. (and the story, from what we can tell, seems cool)
>
> Caw!
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luke Jaconetti <[email protected]>
> To: The Unique Geek <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:40 am
> Subject: [The Unique Geek] Re: Re First Avengers Trailer Now Online
>
> Van,
>
> I am going to be very narrow-scoped in my responses because my
> opinions about Joss Whedon have gotten me in trouble on this group
> before.
>
> My wife watched BTVS and I thought the show was insipid. When comics
> fans bemoan that Brian Michael Bendis/Geoff Johns/Gail Simone/Rob
> Liefeld/whomever is "getting paid to write fanfic," my immediate first
> thought is Whedon. The icing on that cake was an interview in Wizard
> where he claimed that Buffy would mop the floor with Blade as well as
> Count Dracula.
>
> I tried Firefly after my friend Adam lent me the DVDs. I made it
> through two episodes before giving up. More stock characters spouting
> his stock dialogue. The "space western" has been done a lot better
> and a lot earlier. Once I saw the mysterious box in the first episode
> I said to my (now) wife "There's a girl in that box." And once the
> girl was revealed, and she asked me how I knew that, I said "Because
> Outlaw Star did it years ago."
>
> I rented Serenity from Netflix after hearing the non-stop praise from
> some of my friends and folks on message boards, including how it was
> (and I quote) "Star Wars done right' and "accessible even if you
> didn't watch Firefly." I thought the film was an incoherent mess and
> one of the worst modern science fiction films I have seen.
>
> Joss Whedon has not proven himself as a feature film director. His
> one feature was a financial disaster. I am very concerned about the
> Avengers using the same tired, boxed-in, trendy language that all of
> his characters seem to use.
>
> In the interest of full disclosure I have not read any of his comics
> work. The X-Men have not appealed to me in a long time.
>
> ~Luke
>
> On Oct 12, 8:13 am, Van Plexico <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Loki works as the main villain for several reasons, not least of which is
> > that
> he was the team's first foe in the comics-- the one who caused the team to
> come
> together. I just hope they don't defeat him by locking him in a lead box.
>
> > I've been figuring he would be the mastermind and we'd see a sort of
> > "Masters
> of Evil" manipulated by him. The Red Skull & Hydra would be included, I'd
> think.
> Maybe the/an Abomination.
>
> > Love that they're doing at least a little unfriendliness between Tony &
> > Steve.
> In fact, in that trailer we see practically a staging of their argument from
> 167, albeit with today' smartass Tony in the role of 1978's heroic Tony.
>
> > What don't you like about Whedon, Luke? I never watched Buffy much because I
> have no interest in vampires or teenagers, but I thought his X-Men comics were
> very solid and that Firefly was terrific-- and that Serenity demonstrated that
> he can write and direct a fantastic, fast-paced, character-driven feature film
> with action and snappy dialogue. I can think of anyone I'd prefer to be in
> charge of this movie.
>
> > --Van
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
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