That is really great. I want to sit on this a couple days, to think about
this.
On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 12:09:30 PM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> No worries Dave. I've posted a mimimal version of my two story setup. If
> you need help adapting that to your substory in a tab just drop me a line.
>
> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 6:53:01 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>>
>> No apologies needed, Saq! I should have included a wink or smile emoji. I
>> am just excited to see this at just the right time, when we are trying to
>> look at ways to include Roam-like functionality.
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 11:44:18 AM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>>
>>> Link to follow in a separate thread so as to not derail conversation
>>> much further here.
>>>
>>> David: apologies. I have always aspired to share with the community as
>>> much as possible, however life circumstances over the last two years have
>>> made that difficult. I shared a video of this setup in late 2017 and by now
>>> I had fully expected that this would be a commonplace implementation, which
>>> also contributed to my not prioritizing cleaning up my two story
>>> implementation and sharing it. The TiddlyWiki core makes this extremely
>>> easy with just a few missing pieces. Jeremy has done a great job at
>>> avoiding the limitations we had back in TWC for multiple stories.
>>>
>>> Mohammad: The UI could be cleaner and more refined. In fact, this was
>>> done more as a proof of concept and if I re-did this today the UI would be
>>> significantly different. I implemented this partly as an exercise in
>>> learning TW5 (I was a long time TWC user years ago) and it worked better
>>> than anticipated so I have just kept using it without taking the time to
>>> refine it. So it can definitely do with some cleanup in terms of code and
>>> CSS. Currently the CSS is responsive, below a certain width the sidebar is
>>> hidden and if the screen is even smaller it defaults to a one stop layout.
>>> It's also optimized with larger screens in mind (1920+ width)
>>>
>>> It is on my list to clean this up in the near future and add a few
>>> improvements like automatically opening the second story, if it is closed,
>>> when I shift + click a link along with various other learnings from
>>> experience of working with this the last couple of years.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 3:29:55 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Saq I am now officially drooling. You have been holding out on us, man!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 8:24 AM Saq Imtiaz <saq....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Regarding dropzones and opening tiddlers in the substory.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is how I currently have it set up in my TiddlyWiki:
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: tw-substory.png]
>>>>>
>>>>> Note the dropzones above each story. Furthermore there is a "divert"
>>>>> tiddler button in the toolbar for each tiddler, that will open the
>>>>> tiddler
>>>>> in the other story. Lastly, the "Open" tab in the sidebar can be used to
>>>>> drag and drop tiddlers between stories.
>>>>>
>>>>> The way I have this setup is a little bit involved and involves some
>>>>> JS code to modify some core behaviour, and there may have been
>>>>> improvements
>>>>> in the core to make this a little easier since. Jeremy and I discussed
>>>>> some
>>>>> of this in late 2017 but I haven't followed TW development after that
>>>>> until
>>>>> just recently. The most salient of the changes we discussed was
>>>>> introducing
>>>>> a mechanism for a TW to be aware of what stories are being used, by means
>>>>> of either a tag or a tiddler list identifying the storylist tiddlers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, give me a few hours and I'll see if I can distill my setup
>>>>> down to the minimum you need to get this up and running for opening
>>>>> tiddlers in the substory.
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Saq
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 3:08:20 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Saq, for the code. That works great!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am looking forward to your forthcoming promised comments!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 8:01 AM Saq Imtiaz <saq....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi David, it's been a while :) Hope you are well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So the substory is exactly the same as, and supports the same
>>>>>>> features as the main story. The example on tiddlywiki.com uses a
>>>>>>> streamlined, inlined viewtemplate that only provides a button to close
>>>>>>> every tiddler. Instead, if you pass the appropriate viewtemplate and
>>>>>>> edittemplate to the listwidget controlling the story, you can get the
>>>>>>> exact
>>>>>>> same interface as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To get your substory to behave exactly the same as you main story
>>>>>>> try the following instead of the substory code from tiddlywiki.com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <$navigator story="MySubStoryList" history="MySubHistoryList">
>>>>>>> Click this link to get started: HelloThere
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <$list filter="[list[MySubStoryList]]" history="$:/MySubHistoryList"
>>>>>>> template={{$:/config/ui/ViewTemplate}}
>>>>>>> editTemplate={{$:/config/ui/EditTemplate}} storyview={{$:/view}}
>>>>>>> emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}}/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> </$navigator>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Obviously the "Click this links to get started" is just for demo
>>>>>>> purposes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Note that you could even use a different storyview or emptyMessage
>>>>>>> for this story.
>>>>>>> You can create custom edit and view templates to offer a different
>>>>>>> viewing and editing experience, re-creating the exact Roam parallel UI
>>>>>>> would be easy this way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Personally I think having this in a parallel div to the main story
>>>>>>> is more intuitive rather than in a tab, if I wanted to compare two
>>>>>>> tiddlers
>>>>>>> I would want them to line up better than they currently do in
>>>>>>> TiddlyBlink.
>>>>>>> I've been using this setup since late 2017 and while I don't always
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> it, it is very useful when I do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> More to follow on dropzones and opening tiddlers in the substory.
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Saq
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 2:01:00 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Saq
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for sharing the video of your dual column TiddlyWiki. That
>>>>>>>> looks promising!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Questions about SubStories:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1) How does it "allow you to edit"? I am not seeing that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2) I tagged a tiddler with the SubStories code with
>>>>>>>> $:/tags/SideBar. Is it possible to create a 'dropzone' in that tiddler
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>> that the user could drag a link to the dropzone and have it
>>>>>>>> automatically
>>>>>>>> open there? Maybe when dropping tiddlers there, it changes a state
>>>>>>>> tiddler
>>>>>>>> to include those tiddlers, and the substories tiddler displays all the
>>>>>>>> tiddlers in the state tiddler? And closing a tiddler removes it from
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> state tiddler? I don't know how to do any of this, of course, just
>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>> out loud to light a spark in someone else's mind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 3:35:07 AM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> David: have you considered a sub-story in the parallel tab? This
>>>>>>>>> would allow you to edit, as well as open multiple tiddlers there.
>>>>>>>>> Shift+click from the main story to open in the sub-story isn't
>>>>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>>>> https://tiddlywiki.com/#Creating%20SubStories
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In fact I would consider putting the substory in a separate
>>>>>>>>> parallel div to the main story, which can be toggled, rather than in
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> parallel tab for a better side by side viewing experience. You could
>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>> set it up so that shift+click in the main story showed the parallel
>>>>>>>>> div and
>>>>>>>>> the substory in it, and opened the relevant tiddler there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Roam interface with the parallel viewing reminds me somewhat
>>>>>>>>> of my own two-story layout Tiddlywiki, which sadly isn't packaged
>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>> enough to distribute:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cnubb9osgvfqz4p/tw-dual-story.mp4?dl=0
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> However I can offer guidance to anyone trying to implement the
>>>>>>>>> same. It's mostly wiki markup with some sprinklings of javascript to
>>>>>>>>> glue
>>>>>>>>> things together from what I remember, I haven't fiddled with this in
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> couple of years.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 9:49:20 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The other main drawback to the parallel tab is that it is in view
>>>>>>>>>> mode, not in edit mode.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would welcome code so that
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> a) the search box in the parallel tab is auto-complete, and
>>>>>>>>>> b) the text field is editable
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This would almost replicate what is available in Roam.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 2:15 PM 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <
>>>>>>>>>> tiddl...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Having to search or paste the name of a page to open it in
>>>>>>>>>>> the right side panel - in Roam MAJ + click on any link opens it
>>>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>>>> right side and it's also fully editable straight away so you can
>>>>>>>>>>> work on
>>>>>>>>>>> two note (tiddlers) or even more in parallel (the side panel can
>>>>>>>>>>> hold many
>>>>>>>>>>> notes and you can collapse them)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hm, maybe "MAJ" is an acronym for magic of some kind but how
>>>>>>>>>>>> would you click on any link unless all links were displayed all
>>>>>>>>>>>> the time.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Surely you must search first? Are you saying you click and the
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'page' opens
>>>>>>>>>>>> in edit mode? (I'm not familiar with Roam - maybe it only has one
>>>>>>>>>>>> wysiwyg
>>>>>>>>>>>> mode for direct edit?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think Anne is referring to the "parallel" tab in tiddly blink.
>>>>>>>>>>> It needs a bit of work -- you have to type the *entire* tiddler
>>>>>>>>>>> address into the box, and then you only get a preview, not an
>>>>>>>>>>> editable
>>>>>>>>>>> version.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For my own version, I have forward/back buttons on each tiddler.
>>>>>>>>>>> Then I can use the standard search box to find the tiddler I want,
>>>>>>>>>>> and then
>>>>>>>>>>> immediately navigate back. But I suppose the long-term solution
>>>>>>>>>>> would be to
>>>>>>>>>>> upgrade the parallel search so that it doesn't demand you remember
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> precise title.
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>
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