Craig, this is such excellent feedback! Thank you for taking the time
to give me such detail. It's very, very helpful.
A few of the main points you made I was aware of. I had not done any
tagging of the content at this stage, and I also knew there were a
bunch of vestigial tiddlers floating around somewhere in that
tiddlyspace. I think even some of my own "notes to self" are still in
there. I did go through and strip out the extraneous material when I
posted the bare bones version for download this afternoon (http://
tinyurl.com/tiddly960empty). You are also absolutely right about
chunking the material into smaller bites, and copyediting for
editorial style. My original background was in journalism, so I'm sure
I will revisit all of that soon. As I'm sure you guessed, I mostly
wanted to throw this out there quickly to get feedback, so I
definitely need to go back and give the site some polish.
Also I just got a chuckle when I thought about your comment on
chunking. I used to be pretty disciplined about keeping information in
manageable chunks, but then I went to graduate school, where anything
less than 20 or 30 pages is considered trivial. :-)
You caught me by surprise on the core version. I thought I was on
2.5.3, but I see that this file is not. I think that may have happened
in the process of setting it up on tiddlyspot.com. This was my first
time through that process and I hit a few initial roadblocks. I think
I wound up importing my T960 content into their base file rather than
being able to upload my own original. I'm sure I'll get that straight
and I appreciate you catching it.
Thanks also for your guidance on some of the TW standards, such as
wrapping the CSS in <!--{{{--> and <!--}}}-->. Obviously I haven't
been working with TW long enough to pick up on those details yet, so
it's very helpful to know. Also your suggestions for a coherent
tagging system are great and give me a big head start down that road.
For that matter, I need to revisit my naming conventions for the
tiddlers themselves. The 960 syntax evolved consistently enough, but I
got a bit goofy with a lot of the other elements. Part of that was the
process of figuring out just how many levels I needed to create to do
what I was doing, and I made a few false starts that got deeper than
necessary. You see the debris of that in things like RowBelow and
RowBelowOther. I even think I had a RowRowColumnBox in there
somewhere, which kept making that darn children's song roll around in
my head.
You also make an excellent point about being able to navigate the
display hierarchy. It is something I grew aware of during my rapid
development frenzy, and I've been chewing on some possible approaches
to it. I got half the problem solved when I figured out how to make
the headline displayed in the tiddler link back and open the tiddler
in the main story, so I can get from a display box to edit the
content. Going the other way is more problematic and definitely
something that needs consideration. Some sort of parent/sibling/child
tagging may be a solution, but I haven't thought it out fully.
You're also right about the ColorPalette vs CSS styling. It's just a
case of TW and Fluid 960 handling it differently, and I have not made
an attempt to reconcile the two approaches. For the most part I tried
to let TW do its thing, and let Fluid 960 do its thing, and keep both
as true to their original as I could. But since the overriding goal is
putting Fluid to the service of TW, conflicts such as these should
probably follow TW standards. One of the main thoughts I'm trying to
sort out is just how radically this changes the default PageLayout
file and whether that is good for most users. It may be better to
build a handful insertion points into the PageLayout file (RowAbove,
BelowSidebar, AboveFooter) and then just have users insert their
changes in those tiddlers rather than tinkering around in PageLayout.
If the insertion points were empty they would have no effect, and more
technically savvy users would have no problem with adding additional
insertion points if they chose. I'm wondering (out loud) if there is a
tipping point somewhere for users between finding the right tiddler
among many to use, or finding the right section of code among
lengthier stretches. ThemeSwitcher is another possibility for
managing it too. I haven't really looked too closely yet at how most
TW theme packages are standardized, so that may move things one way or
another.
Your link to the tbgtd site layout example was really helpful. I knew
the conceptual model was not really up to snuff, but again it was just
getting it out quickly. I definitely want to revisit how I present it,
and also some of the ways I can demonstrate the grid through an
overlay. I think I have a place tucked away in the stylesheet or
pagelayout that puts borders on all the boxes, but it breaks the
layout miserably. What I really want to be able to do is to have a
semi-transparent overlay appear on the click of a button (see
http://fluidgrids.com and click Show Grids). I just haven't gotten
that far yet.
Your mockup of the conceptual model was great way of extending what
was already there (and BBedit swallowed those CRLFs like a champ). It
makes me think that a more interactive model would be an excellent way
to present it, and I'm not sure whether that means popup, tooltips,
folding/unfolding, or another kind of visual indicator of hierarchy as
the user interacts with the model. Even Mario's wonderful JQsorter
that you pointed to earlier could be an interesting possibility even
if it is just used for demonstrating the concepts. But stepping across
that line into javascriptopia is a big leap for me, so that will
probably take me a little longer. I've done enough different kinds of
scripting and coding over the years to have a good intuitive sense of
the logic of it, but I just haven't gotten deeper than plugging in
plug ins. Yet. I know there are going to be some good ideas from the
gurus on this group about "this or that piece would be better as a
script," so I'll just do my best to keep up. :-)
Thanks for the really thorough run through of the details. It's
actually pretty reassuring that most of your comments were all things
I had considered or things that I know are very manageable given a
little time to go back through things. I really was not quite sure
what to expect when I posted last night. I'm happy this little project
looks like it might be useful. I've been having fun putting together
some examples today, and I'm actually enjoying how darned easy it is
to shuffle things around and put this here and that there with just a
few lines of syntax.
TiddlyWiki is a blast!
David
On Jan 5, 1:30 pm, Craig in Calgary <[email protected]> wrote:
> David,
>
> The base Tiddly960 has 97 untagged tiddlers. A few appropriate tags
> would help with navigating through your solution, especially if
> someone incorporates [[TagglyTagging|http://mptw.tiddlyspot.com/
> #TagglyTagging]] into Tiddly960. TagglyTagging Tutorial (http://
> mptw.tiddlyspot.com/#[[TagglyTagging Tutorial]]) explains and
> demonstrate how this works and [[TiddlySpot FAQ|http://
> faq.tiddlyspot.com]] is an excellent example of how TagglyTagging can
> work.
>
> My suggestions for the first level of tags (I haven't accounted for
> all tiddlers or all tags):
> * tag=instruction or documentation or help or howto or ...:
> 12ColumnGrid, Anywhere, Documentation (the See Also section is a good
> touch and it could be generated automatically via the forEachTiddler
> (fET) plugin (http://tiddlywiki.abego-software.de/
> #ForEachTiddlerPlugin), [[How it works]], [[Introducing Tiddly 960]]
> (you're on the right with links to other tiddlers), NeedMedia,
> Tiddly960conceptualModel, [[Under the hood]], [[Welcome to Tiddly
> 960]], etc.
> * tag=css: BrandingHeader, FluidGrid.css, FluidLayout.css,
> FluidNav.css, FluidReset.css, etc.
> * tag=example: BlurbOne, BoxMediaContent, MainMenuAnnounce,
> MediaContent, etc.
> * tag=element: NewBanner, NewBox, NewCol1, NewRow, RowHeader,
> TwStartsHere, etc.
> * tag=system or systemTiddler: GettingStarted, PageTemplate,
> StyleSheet, etc.
> * a tag to identify all tiddlers that can be deleted without
> compromising the integrity of Tiddly960
> * a tag to identify all core Tiddly960 tiddlers so someone could
> import them into their TW
>
> If you applying any tagging, be sure to review all your instructional
> content to insure consistent use of terms. I'm a Technical
> Communicator and Information Architect. This is the kind of stuff I
> notice. I'm also currently between contracts (thus the time to spend
> on this).
>
> More suggestions in no particular order (remember, you asked):
> * You might want to consider upgrading to the latest TW Core (2.5.3)
> * There are some tiddlers I think you don't need to include anymore.
> So far I've found: HowToMakeaBox, HowToMakeaColumn, LoremIpsum.
> * I would break the Documentation tiddler into several tiddlers
> (Tiddly 960 Markup, Extending Tiddly 960, What is a "fluid grid"?,
> What does 960 mean?). You can still render the content within
> Documentation as if it's a single tiddler. And by breaking it down a
> little (chunking) you can reuse the 'chunks' for popup definitions, a
> glossary, etc.
> * For consistency with TW CSS (e.g. StyleSheet), wrap your CSS
> tiddlers (e.g., Fluid*.css, BrandingHeader) in <!--{{{--> and <!--}}}--> -
> BrandingHeader is a good example of TW confusing the source code
>
> markup for wiki markup and rendering the content incorrectly
> * re:CssTheming tiddler (a more knowledgeable TWer can correct me on
> this if I'm wrong) - colors should be handled through ColorPalette,
> not StyleSheet
> * re:WhatIsTiddlyWiki tiddler - change the tiddler title to just
> TiddlyWiki then you can change all ~TiddlyWiki references to just
> TiddlyWiki and they will link to this tiddler
> * re:WhatIsTiddlyWiki tiddler - To be consistent with most TW
> adaptations change ''~TiddlyWiki'' to ''[[TiddlyWiki|http://
> tiddlywiki.com]]
> * If you want to allow a single Tiddly960 TW to support multiple
> layouts, something likehttp://www.tiddlytools.com/#SwitchThemePlugin
> could be implemented - seehttp://www.tiddlytools.com/#SwitchThemePluginInfo
> for details
> * By putting a reference to where a example tiddler is being
> displayed, it will make it easier to find and modify elements in the
> current PageTemplate. Put another way: unraveling the heirarchy of
> your tiddlers is currently very difficult. For example:
> ** In NeedaFooter, add "see [[RowFooter]]"
> ** In RowFooter, add "see [[RowBelowOther]]"
> ** In BannerText2, add "see [[RowBelowOther]]"
> ** In Box12ColumnExample, add "see [[RowBelowOther]]"
> * Create another Tiddly960conceptualModel tiddler that is formatted
> for the layout of Tiddly960, i.e. PageTemplate
> (seehttp://tbgtd.tiddlyspot.com/#SiteLayoutfor a good example) with
> working links to the tiddler elements. Here is the beginning of a mock-
> up which doesn't have working links. It only includes the top section
> of Tiddly960 (Note: Google Groups will push CRLFs into this listing):
>
> This demonstrates the Tiddly 960 conceptual model of rows, columns,
> and boxes, based on [[PageTemplate]].
> <html><style>
> .T960container { border: 1px solid gray; background: #fff; font-
> weight: normal; padding: 6px; width:auto; overflow:auto;}
> .T960Pagecontainer { border: 1px solid gray; background: #eee; font-
> weight: normal; padding: 6px; width:auto; overflow:auto;}
> .T960row { border: 1px solid red; background: #fbb; padding: 12px;
> margin-bottom:6px; position:relative; width:auto; overflow:auto;}
> .T960column { border: 1px solid green; background: #9c9; padding: 6px;
> margin-bottom:6px; margin-right:6px; float:left; position:relative;
> overflow:auto;}
> .T960box { border: 1px solid blue; background: #99c; padding: 6px;
> margin-bottom:6px; position:relative; width:auto; overflow:auto;}
> .TW960row { border: 6px solid blue; background: #99f; padding: 12px;
> margin-bottom:6px; position:relative; width:auto; overflow:auto;}
> .TW960column { border: 1px solid blue; background: #bbf; padding: 6px;
> margin-bottom:6px; margin-right:6px; float:left; position:relative;
> overflow:auto;}
> .TW960box { border: 1px solid blue; background: #ddf; padding: 6px;
> margin-bottom:6px; position:relative; width:auto; overflow:hidden;}
> .T960label { margin:6px; margin-bottom:9px; display:block;
> width:auto;}
> .T960Headerlabel { padding: 6px; background: #99c; margin:6px; margin-
> bottom:9px; display:block; width:auto;}
> .T960grid { background-color:#ffc; border:1px solid yellow; margin:
> 5px; margin-bottom:9px; display:inline-block; width: 5%;}
> </style>
> <div class="T960Pagecontainer">
> <div class="T960container"><span class='T960Headerlabel'>RowHeader,
> which calls <b>BrandingHeader</b> <i>(SiteTitle, SiteSubtitle, etc.)</
> i></span>
> <span class='T960label'><b>RowAbove</b>, which calls NewRow,
> NewCol12, NewBanner (so that "tiddler BannerText" can be displayed),
> EndBanner - <i>A Fluid 960...</i></span><hr/>
> <div class="T960box"><span class='T960label'>Then <b>RowAbove</b>
> calls NewRow, NewCol12, NewBoxBorder (so that "tiddler
> WhatIsTiddly960" can be displayed), EndBox - <i>What is Tiddly
> 960?...</i></span></div>
> <span class='T960label'>Then <b>RowAbove</b> calls NewRow, <i>(no
> content)</i></span>
> <div class="T960column" style="width:29%"><span
> class='T960label'>NewCol4, <i>(no content)</i></span>
> <div class="T960box"><span class='T960label'>NewBox,
> "tiddler BlurbOne", EndBox, - <i>Display tiddlers anywhere</i></span></
> div></div>
> <div class="T960column" style="width:29%"><span
> class='T960label'>NewCol4, <i>(no content)</i></span>
> <div class="T960box"><span class='T960label'>NewBox,
> "tiddler BlurbTwo", EndBox, - <i>Put them above or below your main TW</
> i></span></div></div>
> <div class="T960column" style="width:29%"><span
> class='T960label'>NewCol4, <i>(no content)</i></span>
> <div class="T960box"><span class='T960label'>NewBox,
> "tiddler BlurbThree", EndBox, - <i>Scroll below this TW to find out
> more</i></span></div></div></div>
> <div style='clear:both;'></div>
> </html>
>
> Take care,
>
> Craig
>
> p.s. And you thought ''you'' were long winded.
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