Hi Mario No offence taken :-)
It's basically the idea of understanding and using a TiddlyWiki as a single document which I think is important - and fundamental in terms of getting a feeling of true ownership of content.. - it's offline, it's in your own filesystem and organized along with all your other "school stuff"... TiddlySpace was my choice for projects like this a couple of years ago - and I even had my own TiddlySpace running from tiddlyspace.gir.dk - alas things was broken during an upgrade, and the administrator couldn't make it work again... (He did try for a couple of weeks and Chris helped him understand some of the "hariry details"..) Very frustrating indeed - many hours of work has been abandoned... TiddlySpace.com I haven't really used since I started digging into TW5 beta... I still use some of my wikis as ressources, materials etc... - I don't want to make my students or collegues sign up for an infrastructure they don't understand or need - and I lost faith in the sustainability of tiddlyspace (development and support) when Chris Dent stopped working at BT. Tank seems very promising - and I'm sure that Chris will take it far - again it is a project in heavy development and I don't have the needed time or ressources to setup my own Tank on shared ressources at our school atm. On the other hand I'm sure Chris would help me out if I invested some time in a local project with Tank. My dispositions atm. are centered around the usability of TW5 for documentation, sharing materials with students and creating tools for collegues for them to use when organizing schedules for delegated work (timelineplugin was stuck with TW 5 ver. 0.10 I'm afraid..).... To summarize what I use TW5 for atm: 1) Todo tools for collegues - My principal uses/edits my (hutudu)TW for general overview - and collegues looks at it as a webpage where they can get an individual overview.. 2) When I cooperate with external teachers or censors (happens quite often) - I setup a WIki where I communicate schemas/schedules, appointments and write journals about student progess etc... I've done this in TWC uptill now - because I've used TiddlyHome by Bidix to be able to setup a user for them - and have a login prompt.. Now I simply use the encryption provided by TW5. 3) Students get adresses to Wikis I've set up online with constantly updated info - or materials for them to digest. They percieve them as standard websites - and they all share/use same password (encryption - not for saving edits - just for reading) 4) Last year I made a little hypertext course (one lesson) where I setup a TW5 with only very little information on how to show external and internal images in TW. We spent one hour/lesson on writing hypertext stories with images and two links pr. tiddler. 5) I made a course in how to use Moodle on another school (for teachers and administrative personel) - and I used TW5 as a handout with a couple of guides and a lot of Q&A's based on questions I had recieved beforehand.. We used half an hour at the beginning of the course where they downloaded my prepared TW5 to their computers. I showed them how to write, drag and drop images and save the document. I was lot of fun - and I had a chance to find out how computer literate they where from the start.. At our school we divide students into 5 classes/levels for each and every subject. Next year I've accepted to teach students at the absolute lowest level in Danish - on one condition - I want to make sure that their computers and aids/tools for reading and writing works fine for every student in my classroom (they bring their own devices) - and I will use technology to a great extent.. I want them to get a feeling of ownership for documents created in class, and I'd like to help them get organized on a broader scale - not only in our class.. Collaboration isn't really the ultimate goal here - it's more simultaneity and syncronicity I'm striving for. Students at level 5 have a lot going for them because they have very different reasons for being there individually different problems with the subject - and I'd like to try and meet them where they are and give them oppertunities to get better and have succes at their own pace.. If I decide to use TW in the classroom - I have to make sure it's *very* simple to use - and that they will feel comfortable using it on their own computer as a personal tool.. I might just show them how to dump their personal file on my TW (in the sky) to get "upgraded" and get most recent materials.. Hope this runthrough helped in understanding my concerns?! Cheers Måns Mårtensson Den lørdag den 19. juli 2014 12.40.27 UTC+2 skrev PMario: > > I hope this post is not too much "off topic" :) ... but I think it's > interesting to discuss it within this thread. > > On Saturday, July 19, 2014 3:41:57 AM UTC+2, Måns wrote: >> >> I'd like to be able to setup a "masterwiki" for students to download - >> and students should be able to take notes, do citations, answer questions, >> update & import new material directly from their own local copy of the >> "masterTW"... >> > > Hi Måns, > > This is a very interesting post! ... It makes me think a lot ... > In your feature list above you describe functions that can be done with > TiddlyWeb, TiddlySpace and / or Tank. > > >> I don't want to set up a TiddlySpace, TiddlyWeb or Tank backend to do >> this... >> > > Then you write, you won't use the software, that would allow you to get it > working. > Instead you want to use software that wasn't designed to solve your > problems. > > >> My masterTW could be hosted on TiddlySpot, Dropbox, Owncloud, Google Docs >> or my own ftp server with a simple php script. >> > > .... In the following lines of your post, you describe "workflows", that > work around problems, that are introduced by imo improper tools. (There is > no offence intended, even if it feels so) .... > ----- <snip the workflow info> ---- > > Now my question is: > - Why is TiddlyWeb / TiddlySpace / Tank failing in a way, that potential > users won't use them, even if they know it would be the right thing to use > (see Ambit project). > > - Why are the "Workarounds" more attractive, even if the "total cost of > ownership" seems to be very high, in terms of maintenance. > - Much more training of users / students needed. > - The "student workflow" seems to be very "fragile" and "error prone" > - Same or more work needed to make it work. > - ... > > - Why is Owncloud less scary than TiddlySpace or Tank? > > regards > mario > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. 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