TonyM,

I agree with you.
I'd like to say thank you to @Jeremy Ruston for the amazing work he did 
with Tiddlywiky that I love, but I never seen before a so difficult project 
to find doc for.
It's not clear where to found it and if you find something, probably it's 
not up to date.
Igor

Il giorno lunedì 11 dicembre 2017 03:59:23 UTC+1, TonyM ha scritto:
>
> Mat,
>
> I made a point of not wanting to step on each others toes, and I want to 
> ensure this.
>
> My view is that improved documentation needs to be produced and added to 
> TiddlyWiki.com, and where not practical references from tiddlywiki.com. 
> There is no harm building and collating this elsewhere, especially with a 
> team
> Any suggestion of another address/collaboration tool is a workplace or 
> team effort, and unlike all the historical failures to which you refer, I 
> am not trying to replace or supplant anything. In fact I would propose we 
> do our best to integrate with tiddlywiki.com and reference the Google 
> Groups as much as possible.
>
> Your ideas about Visible within peoples wikis, TWFederation etc... all 
> sounds promising, but until someone makes these a reality, with respect 
> they are thought bubbles. Can you help us realise this?. I for one get 
> thoroughly confused researching TWFederation etc... Even just the Git hub 
> documentation contribution method is confusing, for someone who does not 
> currently use GitHub other than as a source.
>
> Your suggestion of google drive seems no less complex or fiddly so please 
> refine this and make a proposal.
>
> It is really clear we are an informal community , all with different 
> ideas, skills and experience planning a solution for ourselves and others 
> with different ideas, skills and experience. The result is a complex mess 
> of indecision.
>
> No solution is forever, and none perfect. They will come and go over time 
> and as long as they can contribute something of value to the community they 
> will be worthwhile. So far however we have analysis paralysis, or too many 
> competing options to proceed.
>
> In my community and professional life I have come across a number of 
> occasions where similar circumstances have arisen. The only time I have 
> seen progress is when someone bytes the bullet (often me) and jumps in the 
> deep end and they gain supporters. From when I was young, living in Papua 
> New Guinea, New Zealand and Australia, I came to learn that once my 
> frustration with group indecision reaches a certain level,  I tend to step 
> in and start leading a solution, even if it is not perfect, its better than 
> little or no progress. One of these things can happen;
>
>    1. People get on-board, it gets rolling and then we adjust our target 
>    based on what we learn and get wonderful results.
>    2. I spend a lot of time and effort, listening, supporting and solving 
>    problems but it goes to waste because no one gets on board
>       1. Because people nit pick because the solution is not perfect or 
>       in their image
>       2. Because another solution, comes along, often inspired by my 
>       effort and is duly adopted with success.
>    
>
> If no one acts Nothing happens, often because we wait for someone else's 
> better solution.
>
> Now here is my personal circumstance as background and by way of 
> explanation how I relate to tiddlywiki
>
>
>    1. I am a 50 something ICT Professional of 30+ Years with a broad 
>    experience in many ICT disciplines, Of particular relevance recently, 
>    collaboration and Knowledge Management
>    2. I was retrenched from my second high-paying corporate job in as 
>    many decades
>    3. Being sick of the corporate world and my inability to use all my 
>    skills I have started my own Business https://PSaT.com.au
>    4. I see TiddlyWiki as a key enabler for personal, Business and client 
>    solutions
>    5. I am committed to TiddlyWiki in a personal, community and 
>    professional capacity
>    6. I need to earn a wage, and there is a risk tiddlywiki will crowd 
>    out real paid work, however I am committed to building my own deep 
>    understanding and references for tiddlywiki
>    7. If I am going to the effort of building my TiddlyWiki knowledge I 
>    would like to share that knowledge
>    8. At present, There is no easy avenue beyond publishing solutions and 
>    posting in Google Groups for me to Give back to the community.
>
>
> The community will get a lot from me, and I am sure many others, like 
> yourself already give as much as they can. The problem is if it costs us 
> too much effort contributing, we contribute less and some people run away 
> from contributing. I want to have this fixed for us all.
>
> Mat, I respect you contribution to the community as a whole, and to this 
> particular subject but can you help us get over the hump?
>
> Tony
>
>
>
> On Monday, 11 December 2017 11:45:17 UTC+11, Mat wrote:
>>
>> TonyM, to save you time I'll say this:
>>
>> Expecting people to go to *some other web-address*, be it to some forum 
>> or a wiki, will not work. All attempts have failed, and there have been 
>> many over the past 10+ years. IMO people go here and to tiddlywiki.com. 
>>
>> The most promising strategy I can think of is something that works from 
>> *within 
>> the users own TW*. That way it is always accessible and it is probably 
>> right there when the issue comes up. 
>>
>> The optimal solution would be TWederation which I will not describe here 
>> but which has been extensively discussed... and promoted as a solution to 
>> documentation and much more.
>>
>> Another, less ambitious idea could be a TW-plugin that lets the user 
>> access and participate in a semi-public folder on someones Google Drive or 
>> similar.
>>
>> For example, the plugin could(!) be a single tiddler showing:
>>
>> * a simple iframe showing a shared Google Docs folder. 
>> * a button that creates new tiddlers from a template. This shows (in view 
>> mode) a link-field where the user inserts the url to an actual google 
>> document. Below this is an iframe that shows this document. And this 
>> tiddler is tagged e.g "doc".
>> * the plugin tiddler with the iframe also has a list of all tiddlers 
>> tagged "docs"
>>
>> The user-inserted url is either to a shared google doc in his/her 
>> personal account or it is to one of the docs found in that shared folder. 
>> Sharing your own google doc requires a google account but reading and 
>> editing(!) a public document does NOT require a google account!!!
>>
>> One more thing:
>> ANY solution that is not part of the standard TW distro or at least 
>> prominently advertised on tiddlywiki.com must be actively promoted! By 
>> "prominently advertised" I mean permanently seen in the default tiddlers! - 
>> not hidden among the other user contributions. So if not prominently 
>> advertised, it would have to be brought up again and again here in the GG. 
>> The powerful advantage with the plugin idea (or TWederation) is that it is 
>> *within 
>> the users own TW *so once you have, you have it. The promo is then about 
>> new people getting the plugin which is probably even a bit fun.
>>
>> <:-)
>>
>

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