Martyn Who was the Russian company?
Regards Rob Kimberley Martyn Smith wrote: > Hi, > > A while ago I claimed that my company is to bring out the lowest phase noise > 10 MHz oscillator. > > This was partly done with tongue in cheek to see what response I got. > > A lot of people came back with alternative oscillators with even lower phase > noise. But I have to say I still haven't seem a better unit that is > actually available. > > Someone mentioned Oscilloquartz BVA oscillator. Although this is great at 1 > Hz, it only makes -145 dBc at 10 kHz which is very poor. Also a $10k price > and one year delivery period isn't what I call a readily available unit (not > that I am in production yet, either). > > Other units that people mentioned don't seem to be made anymore, or just not > available. > > So it seems Wenzel is still king at the moment, but they can also take 20 > weeks to deliver. > > Anyway, I've just found someone from Russia who knocks everyone out of the > air. They claim -161 dBc/Hz at 1 Hz with a -183 dBc/Hz floor noise. Now > that's what I call low noise. > > Anyone know any more about this? I'm trying to make contact with the guy > but no success yet. > > Best Regards > > Martyn > > This Email is from: > > Martyn Smith > Precision Test Systems LTD > Tel: +44 (0) 1245 329608 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Web: www.ptsyst.com > > NOTICE - This message contains legally privileged and confidential > information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. If you > are not the intended recipient of this message, you are hereby notified that > you must not disseminate, distribute, copy or take any action in reliance on > it. If you have received this message in error, please notify Precision Test > Systems LTD. > > This communication represents the originator's personal views and opinions, > which do not necessarily reflect those of Precision Test Systems Ltd. from > whom it emanates. Further, Precision Test Systems Ltd. will not be held > responsible for its contents and/or attachments, if the communication > contravenes the rules of Precision Test Systems Ltd's email policy. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 12:15 AM > Subject: time-nuts Digest, Vol 41, Issue 20 > > > >> Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of time-nuts digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. HP105A/B technical documentation? (Christoffer Bruman) >> 2. Wavecrest DTS-2070C in the house (Magnus Danielson) >> 3. Re: Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA?? (Didier Juges) >> 4. Re: Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA?? (Didier Juges) >> 5. Re: Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA?? >> (Richard (Rick) Karlquist) >> 6. Re: Cesium Oscialltors and Low Phase Noise Frequency Standard >> (Enrico Rubiola) >> 7. Re: Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA?? (Magnus Danielson) >> 8. Re: Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA?? (Brian Styles) >> 9. Re: Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA?? (Enrico Rubiola) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 20:12:49 +0100 >> From: Christoffer Bruman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: [time-nuts] HP105A/B technical documentation? >> To: [email protected] >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Dear List, >> >> I am searching for a service manual (or at least a complete schematic) >> of HP:s 105A (or B) frequency standard, preferably the later version >> with the 10811x inside. There seems to be plenty of information >> downloadable on the 10811x itself, but I am interested in the details on >> how HP solved things like power supply, grounding, internal EFC, >> external DC inlet, etc in these units. >> >> If anyone has any useful links to the manual or a schematic, or >> shareable files, I would be very thankful. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Christoffer :) >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 21:43:36 +0100 (CET) >> From: Magnus Danielson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Wavecrest DTS-2070C in the house >> To: [email protected] >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Hi fellow time-nuts! >> >> I am just happy to let you know that I am now proud owner of a Wavecrest >> DTS-2070C. I also have a SIA-3000P from before, which is nice for jitter >> but >> not as versatile as you would wish at all times. I think the DTS will be a >> nice >> complement. >> >> I was not suspect it to be that large thought, but ah well, life is full >> of >> supprises. >> >> It fired up and I have it doing some counting going down, but I think it >> is >> time to read the manual to figure some things out. Otherwise it seems >> fairly >> easy to operate. >> >> The LCD is BIG, so there is no chance missing the numbers even from some >> distance. >> >> Hmm. Time to make some shootout here... :) >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 17:08:39 -0600 >> From: "Didier Juges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA?? >> To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> That would be pretty close, for once (referring to google translations :-) >> >> Here is the translation from Oscilloquartz themselves: >> >> "French expression meaning "Enclosure with Improved Ageing". The OSA BVA >> crystal oscillators employ special techniques to achieve stability >> performance, unmatched by any other crystal device, i.e. typically 1 x >> 10-11/day." >> >> Didier KO4BB >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck Harris >>> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 10:37 AM >>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA?? >>> >>> A googlized translation is: >>> >>> Improved Housing for Aging >>> >>> -Chuck Harris >>> >>> John Franke wrote: >>> >>>> Try: >>>> >>>> Bo?tier ? Vieillissement Am?lior? >>>> >>>> John WA4WDL >>>> >>>> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 17:17:59 -0600 >> From: "Didier Juges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA?? >> To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> I am not aware of other crystal oscillators with better performance, so >> either I am missing something (the more likely explanation) or there is >> something to it. >> >> Maybe the cut is simply a smoke screen and the outstanding performance is >> actually due to other process detail(s) not disclosed? >> >> Or maybe their oscillators are not that good, they just blow smoke really >> well. >> >> Didier KO4BB >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard >>> (Rick) Karlquist >>> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 10:45 AM >>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA?? >>> >>> Reminds me of the "SC" cut crystal. >>> It either means "Stress Compensated" or "Santa Clara", where >>> it was discovered :-) >>> >>> The BVA has been around for a long time and you would think >>> that if there was really something to it, everybody would be >>> making them. Of course, they are very difficult to make. >>> >>> Rick Karlquist N6RK >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 15:52:15 -0800 >> From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA?? >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Having low aging is nice, but the real problem is >> frequency jumps. Do we know that they are the best >> in that respect? If a crystal can jump 1E-10, then >> that represents 10 days of aging all at once. >> >> Rick Karlquist, N6RK >> >> Didier Juges wrote: >> >>> I am not aware of other crystal oscillators with better performance, so >>> either I am missing something (the more likely explanation) or there is >>> something to it. >>> >>> Maybe the cut is simply a smoke screen and the outstanding performance is >>> actually due to other process detail(s) not disclosed? >>> >>> Or maybe their oscillators are not that good, they just blow smoke really >>> well. >>> >>> Didier KO4BB >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard >>>> (Rick) Karlquist >>>> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 10:45 AM >>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA?? >>>> >>>> Reminds me of the "SC" cut crystal. >>>> It either means "Stress Compensated" or "Santa Clara", where >>>> it was discovered :-) >>>> >>>> The BVA has been around for a long time and you would think >>>> that if there was really something to it, everybody would be >>>> making them. Of course, they are very difficult to make. >>>> >>>> Rick Karlquist N6RK >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 01:07:00 +0100 >> From: Enrico Rubiola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Oscialltors and Low Phase Noise >> Frequency Standard >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed >> >> Martyn, >> designing a Cs standard is not the job for a single man, >> yet I might help you to find frustrated scientists who worked >> on a Cs project (some 10 years ago I took a part in a project, >> designing damn impossible precision electronics). >> >> About the noise of your quartz oscillator, not bad. >> Yet: >> >> Oscilloquartz 8607 has -128.5 dBrad^2/Hz at 1 Hz offset, at 5 MHz, >> which scales to -122.5 at 10 MHz, thus -125.5 dBc. >> Off the shelf, may have some delay. >> >> Rakon has -132 dBrad^2/Hz at 1 Hz offset, at 5 MHz, >> which scales to -126 at 10 MHz, thus -129 dBc. >> Small production for space, not sure you can actually >> buy it. >> >> In your oscillator, is the power dissipated by the quartz of >> 40 microwatts? >> >> Can you send a spectrum? >> >> I am getting great fun in reverse engineering the oscillator >> noise. The noise I mean, not the oscillator. This takes >> some 40-50 pages of my forthcoming book on >> phase noise and frequency stability in oscillators. >> You can't enter an order number, you must wait for >> Cambridge University Press, which is a non-profit >> company. >> >> Cheers, >> Enrico >> >> >> On 6 Dec 2007, at 15:12 , Martyn Smith wrote: >> >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Is there anyone out there clever enough to design me a cesium >>> frequency standard?? >>> >>> There's only two manufacturers that I know of and there's room for >>> another supplier. >>> >>> Also you may be interested to read we have just developed what we >>> believe to be the worlds lowest close-in phase noise 10 MHz >>> oscillator. >>> >>> It makes -121 dBc/Hz @ 1 Hz. Noise floor is only -162 dBc/Hz at >>> the moment, but we are working on reducing this a further 5 to 10 dB. >>> >>> Enter your order number here...... >>> >>> Best Regards >>> >>> Martyn >>> >>> This Email is from: >>> >>> Martyn Smith >>> Precision Test Systems LTD >>> Tel: +44 (0) 1245 329608 >>> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Web: www.ptsyst.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >>> time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> Enrico Rubiola >> professor of electronics >> >> web: http://rubiola.org >> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> FEMTO-ST Institute >> 32 av. de l'Observatoire >> 25044 Besancon, FRANCE >> voice: +33(0)381.853940 (E.Rubiola) >> voice: +33(0)381.853999 (switchboard) >> fax: +33(0)381.853998 >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 01:10:09 +0100 (CET) >> From: Magnus Danielson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA?? >> To: [email protected], [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> From: "Didier Juges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA?? >> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 17:17:59 -0600 >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> >>> I am not aware of other crystal oscillators with better performance, so >>> either I am missing something (the more likely explanation) or there is >>> something to it. >>> >>> Maybe the cut is simply a smoke screen and the outstanding performance is >>> actually due to other process detail(s) not disclosed? >>> >> Let's recall that the BVA isn't the same as a cut, but rather an approach >> to >> handle and mount the cut crystal. The BVA exists in both AT and SC cuts. >> >> The analysis of Rick et.al. for the E1938 was pointing in another >> improvement. >> >> Also, there are many ways to cut a crystal. :) >> >> Smokescreen or not, Oscilloquartz clearly beleive in the BVA methodology >> and >> they seems to have customers for them too. >> >> Is the E1938 commercially available? If not, is there a followup? >> >> Do we really need BVAs or similars for most new designs, considering the >> price, >> size and availability of modern telecom rubidiums? >> >> >>> Or maybe their oscillators are not that good, they just blow smoke really >>> well. >>> >> Well, that would be stupid, since it is easy enought to measure and >> verify. >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 00:15:11 +0000 >> From: Brian Styles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA?? >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Didier Juges wrote: >> >> >>> Maybe the cut is simply a smoke screen and the outstanding performance >>> is actually due to other process detail(s) not disclosed? >>> >> There's quite a bit of guff on the "Oscilloquartz" website - especially >> if you find your way to the OXCO 8607-B datasheet (pdf). >> >> I'm not qualified to weigh this all up, but they point out a double oven >> and an "electrodeless, SC-cut, 3rd overtone crystal, decoupled from its >> mounting structure by four rigid bridges". And they go on to list the >> consquent benefits. >> >> They've made over 10,000 of them. Anyone know what they're charging...? >> >> Yours, >> >> >> >> -Brian Styles >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 01:15:00 +0100 >> From: Enrico Rubiola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA?? >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed >> >> BVA is a French acronym, it means >> Besson Vieillissement Amelior? >> Reymond Besson is the scientist who invented it, here in Besancon, >> a friend of mine, officially retired, yet still at work. >> "Vieillissement" means aging, >> "Amelior?" means improved. >> >> Somebody says that it also means "Besson vieux ?ne", if you >> know French, and French culture because this is not the kind >> of thing you can translate without killing the meaning. >> >> >> >> On 7 Dec 2007, at 17:15 , Michael Baker wrote: >> >> >>> Hello, All-- >>> >>> In doing some reading to educate myself on the relative >>> short and long-term stability characteristics of the best >>> grade quartz resonators, I find that BVA cut resonators >>> are on the leading edge of quartz crystal technology. >>> >>> I have found out how a BVA resonator is fabricated, but >>> I have not discovered what the acronym "BVA" stands for. >>> >>> I suspect that the "B" in "BVA" may refer to Raymond Besson >>> the discoverer of the BVA quartz resonator, but I >>> have not been able to confirm that. >>> >>> Can anyone on the list shed some light on this? >>> >>> Mike Baker >>> ---------------------- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >>> time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> Enrico Rubiola >> professor of electronics >> >> web: http://rubiola.org >> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> FEMTO-ST Institute >> 32 av. de l'Observatoire >> 25044 Besancon, FRANCE >> voice: +33(0)381.853940 (E.Rubiola) >> voice: +33(0)381.853999 (switchboard) >> fax: +33(0)381.853998 >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> >> End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 41, Issue 20 >> ***************************************** >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
