Thankyou Bruce! It is god to know these things. Cheers,........................................................Don C. PS : My "O" key is defective - I am not trying to convert you.
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 2:58 PM Subject: time-nuts Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6 > Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of time-nuts digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: time-nuts Digest, Vol 47, Issue 5 (Don Collie jnr) > 2. Re: PCB design questions thread II (John Miles) > 3. Re: time-nuts Digest, Vol 47, Issue 5 (Bruce Griffiths) > 4. Re: time-nuts Digest, Vol 47, Issue 5 (M. Warner Losh) > 5. Re: PCB design questions thread II (Prologix) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 14:21:27 +1200 > From: "Don Collie jnr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 47, Issue 5 > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I`m curious : What is a "virgin teflon standoff", and does it have > anything > to do with the "teflon Don"? > I don`t see much SMD, here, at the extreme edge of the known Universe, but > I > can see that the single sided approach would make tracing a circuit much > easier,...... > ...........................................................................Don > C. > > PS : Perhaps the "double sided approach" would be more suitable for > Schitzophernics - a few of whome it has been my pleasure to meet. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 1:53 PM > Subject: time-nuts Digest, Vol 47, Issue 5 > > >> Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of time-nuts digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: PCB design questions thread II (John Day) >> 2. Re: PCB design questions thread II (Bruce Griffiths) >> 3. Re: PCB design questions thread II (Matthew Smith) >> 4. Re: PCB design questions thread II (Bob Paddock) >> 5. Re: PCB design questions thread II (Matthew Smith) >> 6. Re: PCB design questions thread II (Bob Paddock) >> 7. Re: PCB design questions thread II (Chuck Harris) >> 8. Re: PCB design questions thread II (Bob Paddock) >> 9. Re: PCB design questions thread II (Keith Payea) >> 10. Re: PCB design questions (Didier Juges) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:20:14 -0400 >> From: John Day <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PCB design questions thread II >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >> >> At 08:04 PM 6/2/2008, you wrote: >>>Personally I *hate* turning boards over and clipping leads. >>> >>>And I'd much rather layout SMD than T/H. >> >> A man after my own heart. 0.5mm and even 0.4mm pin pitch is fine, QFN >> is doable, but takes patience sadly BGA is a bit beyond the pale for >> me right now until I get some more gear. Until I started the job I >> have now I hadn't done any PTH in nearly 15 years - and now I know >> why! And now I know why we have technicians to assemble prototypes, >> but none of them can outdo me for speed and accuracy on an 0.5mm PQFP >> FPGA. >> >> If you are going to do a lot of SMT work by hand, then a good stereo >> microscope and a Metcal MX500 series iron are almost indispensable. >> >> John >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:20:26 +1200 >> From: Bruce Griffiths <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PCB design questions thread II >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> christopher hoover wrote: >>> John Miles wrote: >>> >>>> For one-off PCBs, I've had good luck with www.batchpcb.com . >>>> >>> >>> I agree. I've used them once and have been happy with the >>> results, you just can't be in any hurry. Unfortunately, >>> there's no indication of how long it will take a priori. >>> >>> >>>> SMD is not hard to work with by hand, down to 0603 or thereabouts >>>> depending on eyesight and/or equipment. I find it easier to deal >>>> with than through-hole, frankly. >>>> >>> >>> I agree with the first part, but I actually find SMD to be easier >>> than T/H, if you stick with 0603 and larger for the passives. I >>> find SMD not only easier but quite bit a faster. >>> >>> SMD IC packages are easy once you get the hang of them, but a >>> microscope is needed for inspecting and fixing fine pitched parts. >>> (I think this is a bit of surprise to some folks.) >>> >>> Personally I *hate* turning boards over and clipping leads. >>> >>> And I'd much rather layout SMD than T/H. >>> >>> -ch >>> >> However for low frequency work the low thermal mass of resistors and >> opamps in smt packages can be problematic. >> Also SMT packages are more sensitive to board deflections and vibration. >> >> Using guard rings with some SMT parts is difficult to impossible. >> You no longer have the option of directly connecting a leakage sensitive >> lead to a virgin teflon standoff. >> >> Mixers and phase detectors with dc and low frequency isolated grounds >> for the IF and RF ports dont appear to be available in SMT packages. >> >> How do you cope with SMT parts (eg high frequency ADCs) with metal >> thermal transfer /ground connections under the package itself? >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 10:04:44 +0930 >> From: Matthew Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PCB design questions thread II >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed >> >> Quoth Bruce Griffiths at 2008-06-03 09:50... >> >>> How do you cope with SMT parts (eg high frequency ADCs) with metal >>> thermal transfer /ground connections under the package itself? >> >> Haven't done it myself, but interested to hear others experiences. I'm >> guessing that this would be a job for solder paste and a toaster oven - >> or high-tech equivalent. >> >> >> -- >> Matthew Smith >> Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development >> Business: http://www.smiffytech.com/ >> Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/ >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 20:34:43 -0400 >> From: Bob Paddock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PCB design questions thread II >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> On Monday 02 June 2008 02:31:18 pm Patrick wrote: >> >>> I have wanted to fabricate my own PCBs for several years now but I have >>> never made an attempt. I am set up here to do silk screening and I have >>> ovens and a hot-air soldering iron. Has anyone else tried to fabricate >>> their own boards or is the price of farming the work out just so low >>> now? >> >> I've played with doing them at work. Found it better to just farm them >> out >> to the prototype house. It is tough to get any real consistency from >> week >> to >> week. >> >>> If anyone has farmed out work, could you please feedback as to the entry >>> level costs and if possible, some suggested companies? >> >> Cheapest place I've come across for easy boards with 10mil or large lines >> is this one, but I've not used them yet (probably next month I will): >> >> http://www.futurlec.com/PCBService.shtml >> >>> > 1. Surface mount or through hole? I don't have a re-flow oven (or >>> > even >>> > a >>> > hot air soldering system), so my inclination is to use through hole >> >> SMT is actually easier if you have a good magnifying system. I use >> macro-lenses on the wife's Cam-Corder: >> >> http://www.designer-iii.com/Solder/ Looks better than the picture of the >> screen shows in reality. >> >> http://www.micromark.com/ has the type of tools that you need, like >> insulated >> and cross-tweezers (squeeze them to open them, the reverse of normal >> tweezers) etc. >> >> Pick up a small convection oven at Wal-Mart or such place. >> >> If your making several get a Stencil: >> >> http://www.smtstencil.com/ >> http://www.customlasercutting.com/ >> >>> Will using through hole cause me grief? >> >> In the long term, yes. A lot of older TH parts have not been updated to >> ROHS >> (Lead Free) and they never will be, they will be discontinued at some >> point. >> Virtually all new parts are SMT. >> >>> > 2. How many layers? In an ideal world with money no object, if I >>> > understand the current art correctly, I think I'd probably aim for a >>> > five >>> > layer >> >> I assume that is a typo? You can not have an odd number of layers. >> In this current 3D reality each layer has two sides. :-) >> >>> > board with Vcc, Digital Ground and Power Ground being separate >>> > internal planes, and trace routing on the top and bottom of the board >>> > with as few vias between top and bottom as possible. Does that sound >>> > right? >> >> Separate ground planes, or split ground planes are a bad idea in this >> context. >> Always think about where the return current is going to flow. >> Read the Analog Devices seminar notes on the subject. >> >> http://www.analog.com/analog_root/static/library/technicalSeminarSeries.html >> is the link to the books but you can find the chapters on line. >> >> Read 7a & 7b if nothing else: >> >> http://www.analog.com/en/DCcList/0,3090,1073%255F%255F961,00.html >> >> >> -- >> http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ >> http://www.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ >> http://www.unusualresearch.com/ >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 10:08:03 +0930 >> From: Matthew Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PCB design questions thread II >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed >> >> Quoth Bob Paddock at 2008-06-03 10:04... >> >>> Cheapest place I've come across for easy boards with 10mil or large >>> lines >>> is this one, but I've not used them yet (probably next month I will): >>> >>> http://www.futurlec.com/PCBService.shtml >> >> I was looking at these - they actually do overseas shipments for >> near-domestic freight prices. Great for those of us living in countries >> where board houses require arm, leg and first-born for even small/simple >> jobs. >> >> -- >> Matthew Smith >> Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development >> Business: http://www.smiffytech.com/ >> Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/ >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 20:39:02 -0400 >> From: Bob Paddock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PCB design questions thread II >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> On Monday 02 June 2008 04:53:17 pm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >>> Not the cheapest, but great for "professional" proto's when quality >>> trumps >>> cost (above 1GHz, one source FR4 is totally different from another >>> sources >>> FR4...) >> >> Anyone have suggestions for Metal Core Protype Boards? >> Used in high power LED applications. >> >> I know of this one, are there others?: >> http://www.protoexpress.com/content/speciality.jsp >> >> http://www.cif.fr/new/produits_aff.php3?cat=1&scat=3&sscat=89&p=211 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 21:05:09 -0400 >> From: Chuck Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PCB design questions thread II >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Bob Paddock wrote: >> >>>>> 2. How many layers? In an ideal world with money no object, if I >>>>> understand the current art correctly, I think I'd probably aim for a >>>>> five >>>>> layer >>> >>> I assume that is a typo? You can not have an odd number of layers. >>> In this current 3D reality each layer has two sides. :-) >> >> >> Sure you can. I have done 3 layer, 5 layer, and 7 layer boards. >> >> Having done those, I will advise you not to do 3 layer, it warps. But >> everything else is easily do able. >> >> Multilayer boards are done by bonding together combinations of >> 1 side, 2 side, and 0 sided laminate. For instance: >> >> 4 layer can be made by: >> >> 2 side | 0 side | 2 side >> 1 side | 2 side | 1 side >> 1 side | 1 side | 2 side >> >> ... >> >> 5 layer can be made by: >> >> 2 side | 1 side | 1 side | 1 side >> 2 side | 0 side | 2 side | 1 side >> 2 side | 1 side | 0 side | 2 side >> >> ... >> >> 6 layer can be made by: >> >> 2 side | 0 side | 2 side | 0 side | 2 side >> ... >> >> The only down side to odd numbers of layers is the supply house >> has to stock 1 sided laminate. >> >> -Chuck Harris >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 21:24:21 -0400 >> From: Bob Paddock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PCB design questions thread II >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> >>> How do you cope with SMT parts (eg high frequency ADCs) with metal >>> thermal transfer /ground connections under the package itself? >> >> "How to succeed the first time with ultra-small QFN packages" >> http://www.wirelessnetdesignline.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=202800018 >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 18:36:46 -0700 >> From: "Keith Payea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PCB design questions thread II >> To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> A really good way to handle the pad on the bottom of the part is to put a >> hole through the board right there. You usually need a bunch of vias to >> tie >> the pad to the ground plane on the bottom of the board anyway. Put one >> hole >> large enough for your soldering iron tip to reach in and touch the >> underside >> of the part. When installing the part, solder the regular pads first, >> then >> flip the board over and solder the central pad. >> >> This is sort of self limiting too. If you apply too much heat for too >> long, >> the part desolders itself and falls off! >> >> Adding the extra hole is recommended by some of the vendors. I've used >> it >> sucessfully with 2.4GHz band radios and it works great. >> >> Keith >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >> Behalf Of Bob Paddock >> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 6:24 PM >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PCB design questions thread II >> >> >> >>> How do you cope with SMT parts (eg high frequency ADCs) with metal >>> thermal transfer /ground connections under the package itself? >> >> "How to succeed the first time with ultra-small QFN packages" >> http://www.wirelessnetdesignline.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=202800018 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 10 >> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 20:52:56 -0500 >> From: "Didier Juges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PCB design questions >> To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David C. Partridge >>> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 1:20 PM >>> To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' >>> Subject: [time-nuts] PCB design questions >>> >>> I've been working on the design for a frequency divider to >>> complement the Thunderbolt I recently bought from TVB (thank >>> you Tom, it's working very well as far as I can tell, though >>> of course I've no other standard to compare against). >>> >> >> Dave, >> >> I just made one using a single microcontroller chip soldered on a >> Toolstick >> from Silabs. The Toolstick is a small PWB with a small 8051 class >> microcontroller in surface mount package. The Toolstick costs $10 and you >> need a $18 programmer to flash it. I run the uC using the 10 MHz as >> external >> clock and it has (for now) a 1Hz output. >> >> The toolstick I used is similar to the one described on this page: >> >> http://www.ko4bb.com/Test_Equipment/AFSignalGenerator/SigGen.php >> >> The software is just a couple of for() loops to kill time, a few 2 and 3 >> cycles instructions to adjust the timing perfectly (cannot do NOP from C >> with the free compiler, but you can program in assembly if you need to >> feel >> some pain) and one output is twiddled at the right time. The processor is >> using the 10 MHz as clock. A single chip is all that is required, the >> chip >> I >> actually used is a C8051F530-IT, which costs about $4 on the Silabs web >> site >> (qty 1) and comes in a 20 pin TSSOP package (surface mount, but >> solderable >> by hand). You really only need to connect 4 pins for that job, supply >> voltage and ground, 10 MHz input and 1Hz output. Silabs has a couple of >> parts that are available in DIP package, notably the C8051F330D (refered >> to >> as the 330-GP) which is roughly the same core as the 530. If you buy the >> bare chip, you will have to buy the programmer separately, so if you just >> want to build a few simple projects, you are better off buying the >> toolsticks. >> >> You might want to add a D flip-flop to clean up the edge, even though I >> do >> not know the jitter of the chip itself (I have planned to test it as well >> as >> I can, but there are more projects in the pipe at the moment than time to >> address them) >> >> I am working on a version with both 1 kHz and 1 Hz outputs. >> >> There are a few sine-to-square converters (clock shapers) on Bruce's page >> at >> >> >> http://www.ko4bb.com/~bruce/ >> >> Didier KO4BB >> >> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: >> 5/8/2008 >> 5:24 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> >> End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 47, Issue 5 >> **************************************** > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:26:48 -0700 > From: "John Miles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PCB design questions thread II > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > >> Quoth Bruce Griffiths at 2008-06-03 09:50... >> >> > How do you cope with SMT parts (eg high frequency ADCs) with metal >> > thermal transfer /ground connections under the package itself? >> >> Haven't done it myself, but interested to hear others experiences. I'm >> guessing that this would be a job for solder paste and a toaster oven - >> or high-tech equivalent. > > Yes, see the link I posted. Solder paste + heat gun does the trick, or > you > can just carve out a hole for your soldering iron tip with a Dremel tool. > > Even BGAs are commonly soldered at home with toaster ovens. > > -- john, KE5FX > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:34:28 +1200 > From: Bruce Griffiths <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 47, Issue 5 > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Don Collie jnr wrote: >> I`m curious : What is a "virgin teflon standoff", and does it have >> anything >> to do with the "teflon Don"? >> ...........................................................................Don >> C. >> >> > Don > > In this context virgin teflon means machined from solid teflon and not > welded together from grains of teflon. > > Bruce > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:41:46 -0600 (MDT) > From: "M. Warner Losh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 47, Issue 5 > To: [email protected], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii > > In message: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Bruce Griffiths <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > : Don Collie jnr wrote: > : > I`m curious : What is a "virgin teflon standoff", and does it have > anything > : > to do with the "teflon Don"? > : > > ...........................................................................Don > : > C. > : > > : > > : Don > : > : In this context virgin teflon means machined from solid teflon and not > : welded together from grains of teflon. > > I spent about 10 minutes trying to think of a teflon Don or teflon > coated president joke and couldn't work in a virgin teflon standoff. > The truth is so, anticlimactic afterwards.... > > Warner > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:57:55 -0700 > From: "Prologix" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PCB design questions thread II > To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > Another option is to cook the boards in a skillet. > http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/present.php?p=Reflow%20Skillet > > While John may be brave enough to hand solder BGA I am not :-) > Shorts can be easily detected with x-ray, but opens can be quite difficult > to spot. > > If you do endup hand soldering BGA, this is a good tool to check shorts > and > opens. That is, if the part is JTAG enabled. > http://www.macraigor.com/jscan.htm > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of John Miles > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 7:27 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PCB design questions thread II > > >> Quoth Bruce Griffiths at 2008-06-03 09:50... >> >> > How do you cope with SMT parts (eg high frequency ADCs) with metal >> > thermal transfer /ground connections under the package itself? >> >> Haven't done it myself, but interested to hear others experiences. I'm >> guessing that this would be a job for solder paste and a toaster oven - >> or high-tech equivalent. > > Yes, see the link I posted. Solder paste + heat gun does the trick, or > you > can just carve out a hole for your soldering iron tip with a Dremel tool. > > Even BGAs are commonly soldered at home with toaster ovens. > > -- john, KE5FX > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6 > **************************************** _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
