I agree with many of these comments. I guess LORAN C for timing will never die for me. Now that I have the LORAN C simulator and it keeps the timing receivers happy. Granted the main reference is "me" but I have to say the HP5065 seems more usable then wwvb. And very inexpensive compared to the LORAN C system. ;-) I am using the 59300 chain (Canadian) for now. But I am ready to shift in Sept when they shut down.
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Bob Camp <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi > > I know it's a chicken and egg thing, but Loran-C died for navigation a > while back. The hardware simply isn't out there anymore. GPS could have died > two weeks ago and Loran-C would have not helped the navigation people. They > don't have the receivers in place. A backup that nobody is set up to listen > to is not a backup. > > Keeping Loran-C in the critical care ward forever would have not helped > navigation. The only thing that would have helped was a significant upgrade > to the system. You have to wonder if anybody would put the gear in place > after an upgrade. Even with cheap electronics, the antenna install on Loran > drives up the cost. Production volume on the GPS electronics does will > always make a low use system like Loran expensive. > > The backup for most (but not all) navigation users is the mark one eyeball. > Don't even joke about the modern world navigating with a sextant. I've > handed mine to a number of people and gotten a blank look in return .... > > The thing that will keep SA turned off is competition. If bad people have > three systems to pick between, they will switch to the one that works for > them. No advantage to SA in that case. On the other hand, if you turn on SA, > lots of voters complain about it. It's a lot harder for them to switch. > > Personally, I'll miss Loran-C. It was a very useful thing to have. I have > used Loran a lot, but never for navigation. Like it or not, Loran is a nav > system not a timing system. Without upgrades, Loran is a second rate nav > system. > > Are we very dependent on GPS - yup. That didn't change one bit when they > turned Loran off. Ignore the navigation stuff completely. The world of > timing is now based on GPS. That's been true for years. Trying to get a > backup into those networks is a futile effort. A lot of us have tried and > failed. The problem has not been ignored, it's been mentioned again and > again. There's been an informed decision that GPS is "ok". I disagree with > that, but the decision was not made in an information vacuum. Changing that > decision and implementing the change would take decades, not weeks or > months. You could build a GPS system from scratch in less time than it would > take to finally put in backups at all those timing nodes. > > We live in a fragile world. There are a lot of systems we depend on. Take a > look at how New York City gets it's water supply. That's at least as scary > as GPS. The world is full of single point of failure issues .... > > Bob > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 6:07 AM, Sykes, Stephan wrote: > > > What is going to happen if GPS has a problem, or if the US puts SA back > > on? Now the only backup for navigation is a sextant. > > > > Steve KD2OM > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > > Behalf Of Bill Hawkins > > Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 00:04 > > To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran C sounds > > > > > > Two things: > > > > 1. The Solar Dynamics Observatory launched this morning, on a mission to > > examine the fields and mass ejections that threaten satellites and > > power grids. They are delighted to be putting instruments in place > > after a prolonged quiet period so they can watch activity ramp up. > > > > The people who shut down non-satellite methods won't be in office at > > peak activity. > > > > 2. Its all about $$$$$$ because they are so easy to count. Decisions > > based > > on dollars don't require any technical background. People with empathy > > lose out to people who are focused on the dollars. (You folks with > > other currencies can substitute them for declining dollars. The > > principle > > is the same.) Should I automate or retain jobs? Let's see, which costs > > less > > per year? In dollars, that is, not human misery. > > > > Albert J. Bernstein wrote "Dinosaur Brains: Dealing with All Those > > Impossible > > People at Work" to explain how the most primitive brain of the three in > > our > > skulls sometimes / often gets the upper hand. Fatally attracted to > > female > > fatty deposits? Blame your dino brain and try to rein it in. Trying to > > deal > > with somebody shouting at you? You're watching a dino brain take over. > > Don't > > try to explain, the dino can't hear you unless what you say sounds > > threatening. > > > > Dealing with someone who is playing dominance games? Say hello to an > > ancient > > lizard and forget any attempt to reason with the person. Who plays > > dominance > > games? Almost any politician you care to name. > > > > So, no, don't think anything good is gonna happen. There's a reason why > > engineers are familiar with not having resources to do it right the > > first > > time. > > > > Darn, the soap box broke. > > > > Bill Hawkins > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: paul swed > > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:07 PM > > > > Sure they might take a check for $36M or so. > > As they have said without the yanks, its broke. So they will shut down > > before Oct. > > Its all about $$$$$$ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
