Hi

A lunar setup would only give you data for part of the day. You would relax the 
flywheel requirement. Net result likely would still be a maser / cesium combo 
at each site. Not real clear how you would model clouds and weather into the 
availability equation. Some of the things that 100% take out GPS also kick up a 
LOT of dust. There is a point where the dust locks up all the turbines and 
there's nothing to track....

Bob



On Sep 10, 2010, at 2:42 PM, jimlux <[email protected]> wrote:

> Stanley Reynolds wrote:
>> On the crazy side another common view object is the lunar laser ranging 
>> retroreflector array. Has been improvements in cost of lasers and telescopes 
>> in the past 41 years and it doesn't appear to be headed for shutdown anytime 
>> soon.
>> 
> 
> Hmm.. the SNR isn't all that huge on the echo. The target is say, 1 square 
> meter, at a distance of 300,000 km.
> 
> The beam divergence coming back is about the same as the outbound (that is, 
> in order to cover 300km on earth, you need to have a spot on the moon about 
> 300km in diameter).. So the laser power will be spread out by a factor of 
> 71E9.. (about 110 dB). The power reflected back, if intercepted by a 1 square 
> meter aperture will have the same "loss"  for a round trip loss of around 
> 220dB.
> 
> Radiate 10 Watts, and you're seeing -210dBW coming back.. That's going to be 
> tough to detect. Just how many photons/second is that? And what's the dark 
> current/shot noise of your detector (a PM tube, presumably)
> 
> The first experiments with the Apollo 11 reflector were done with the 3.1m 
> antenna at the Lick observatory.. that's a pretty big telescope. The work at 
> the McDonald observatory used almost as big a telescope, but did provide 
> ranging to 1 cm, which is 0.03 ns...
> 
> If we make the assumption that a degradation in position accuracy to 10m 
> requires 1/10,000 the power.. that would imply you could use a telescope with 
> 1/100th the area, or about 1/10th the diameter.. that's in the reasonable 
> range..30-45 cm aperture is an off the shelf commodity item.
> 
> http://www.physics.ucsd.edu/~tmurphy/apollo/apollo.html talks about "few 
> picoseconds"...
> 
> they use a pulsed laser with a few watts average power 115mJ/pulse at 20Hz 
> with a 3.5 meter telescope making a 1.8 km spot on the moon.  For common view 
> sync, you need to have the spot bigger, as mentioned above, which is nice, 
> because it means you don't need as big a telescope to collimate the beam.
> (interestingly, they use a XL-DC GPS disciplined oscillator as their 
> reference)
> 
> 
> In other parts of that site, they say that getting cm scale precision 
> requires about 10 photons..
> 
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