Did it sound like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_earth_return
On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 7:14 PM, WB6BNQ <[email protected]> wrote: > Will, > > OK, that sounds normal to me. Originally, your first description made it > seem as > something completely different. > > I see nothing wrong with what you are now describing. The fact that they are > feeding short blocks via the "REAR ALLEY" from the main street is not unheard > of. And using just 2 wires is fine as there is no need to run a third wire if > you are not going to use it. Similar arrangements can be seen up in the San > Francisco bay area in the old neighborhoods as they were laid out with the old > East Coast thinking from well over a century ago. > > I am glad to see that they are not too backwards in your part of the country. > > bill....WB6BNQ > > > Will Matney wrote: > >> Bill, >> >> I'm not sure what the voltage is, as I remember asking about it at one >> time, when the transformer went belly up, and I think he said 4 kV, but I'm >> not sure. Now, as to the neutral wire, it runs along the poles just under >> the hot, and about even with the transformer. It's a two wire system, with >> ground, they have running, and they feed about a two block stretch behind >> two rows of houses (along our back yards). The insulated neutral is >> carried, or supported, by an uninsulated aluminum cable, or ground, between >> the poles. Actually, it's what they use to attach it to the side of the >> pole with. There is a small spiral wire that wraps around the insulated >> neutral and ground, and holds the two together in a bundle. In other words, >> counting the hot on top of the pole, there would be three wires, a neutral, >> ground, and a hot. They bug onto the neutral directly from the transformers >> primary, and to the hot, on top of the pole, through the blow out fuse. Of >> course the seconday carries the normal 220-110 Vac single phase into the >> home, and that ground runs down the pole to a ground rod, which is also >> tied to the ground (that runs with the neutral) from pole to pole, and is >> attached to a ground rod at the home too. >> >> No, if they tried to use the earth as a return, that would be really bad >> news, it's ground only. What they do here, is down by the highway, they >> have a larger transformer, hooked to the three phase main line, that feeds >> these different single phase lines to the rows of homes. About every row >> goes to its own transformer at the end of the line, as I have been without >> power, or my whole row has, and the row of houses in front of me, across >> the street, and behind me, across that street, have power. That in turn >> means that the fuse has opened down at the highway, at that transformer >> bank, over a short up this line somewhere, generally due to a tree limb >> making contact with the hot on the top of the pole. >> >> I don't have a photo of the pole here, but all we have is a pole with a >> single insulator on the tip top. It has no means of carrying multiple hots >> like you describe on arms, for the three phases. Just below the hot, about >> two feet down the pole, is where the ground and neutral run. That is also >> about the top of the transformers that feed the homes here. The only thing >> we have that set up like your speaking of is down by the highway. You would >> have to know AEP, as they are bad to undersize everything, especially >> transformers. Here, they had five houses running off a transformer meant >> for two, or three at the most, until it finally gave out. I complained, >> they sent up a supreviser, and they upsized it, and we've had no more >> trouble. >> >> Best, >> >> Will >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >> >> On 6/26/2011 at 5:52 PM WB6BNQ wrote: >> >> ?Will, >> ? >> ?What you describe does NOT make sense. When you say nuetral or ground do >> you >> ?mean a second wire ? Surely you do not mean they are using the earth >> (dirt) as a >> ?return path ? That would be terribly inefficient ! Equally, if the 220 >> center >> ?tap is earthed along with one side of the higher voltage from the primary >> side of >> ?the transformer, then I could see where some serious issues if the return >> path >> ?gets interrupted but the center tap and return line from the transformer >> are >> ?still connected. >> ? >> ?If I am understanding what you are saying, such a layout would not provide >> a very >> ?reliable operation for the last drop point if it is a very long run. >> ? >> ?Just how long are these single wire runs ? Do you know what the voltage >> is on >> ?that top wire ? >> ? >> ?Could you clarify this a bit more ? >> ? >> ?Bill....WB6BNQ >> ? >> ? >> ?Will Matney wrote: >> ? >> ?? Bill, >> ?? >> ?? I wish it was that way here, but it's not, only along the highway where >> the >> ?? general business is located. Now, across the Ohio River, on the >> Huntington, >> ?? WV side, it is more insudtrial, and they do have it in places as your >> ?? thinking of, all through town. It's like that from Huntington WV, all >> the >> ?? way to Ashland, Ky, or on that side of the river. >> ?? >> ?? I live in Proctorville, Ohio, a really small town, or really about 2-1/2 >> ?? miles above it, and it's all sub divisions here. We're right across the >> ?? Ohio River from Huntington. The poles for all these houses carry one hot >> ?? wire on top, off a single insulator, plus there's a ground or neutral, >> the >> ?? telephone, and TV cable, and that's all we have on a pole. They just bug >> ?? onto the top line with the fuse blow-out, and into the transformer. Out >> of >> ?? the transformer goes to the neutral, and then a ground wire down the >> pole, >> ?? if it's a pole with a transformer on it, like behind me here. It's like >> ?? that everywhere here, unless you get to a larger city like our county >> seat >> ?? at Ironton, or at South Point. The three phase lines we have are along >> the >> ?? highway, and or main roads, but when you hit the streets, that are all >> ?? residential, the above mentioned scheme is all we have. I guess it's >> ?? because that on this end of our county, it was mostly farming, until now >> ?? that's it built up over the past 30 years. The farms are gone, and in >> their >> ?? place are new sub divisions, but they still run the power to the new >> homes >> ?? the same way. To have three phase here, you either have to own property >> by >> ?? the highway (St Rt 7), or you use a converter. I guess that's just the >> way >> ?? AEP wants to do it. >> ?? >> ?? Best, >> ?? >> ?? Will >> ?? >> ?? ?*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >> ?? ? >> ?? ?On 6/26/2011 at 4:27 PM WB6BNQ wrote: >> ?? ?Will Matney wrote: >> ?? ?snip >> ?? ?As of now, the only 3 phase lines around here are close to the major >> roads >> ?? where business resides, but when you get into the residential areas, >> it's >> ?? only single phase on the poles. >> ?? ? >> ?? ?Best, >> ?? ?Will >> ?? ? >> ?? ?Will, >> ?? ?I am going to have to disagree with your statement above (in blue). In >> ?? residential areas the top three lines are 3 phase and, typically, 4 KV. >> ?? Yes, only single phase is routed to homes as 220 volts center tapped via >> a >> ?? transformer. AND, you will also see three (3) 220 volt lines at a lower >> ?? level on the poles feeding the houses grouped for that transformer. >> ?? Depending upon routing, there may be small runs that are stringers from >> a >> ?? transformer where only the 220 volt wires are run, but only because >> there >> ?? was no intent to continue the 4 KV bus in that direction. >> ?? ?The reason for the 3 phase is to balance the load to the substation. >> That >> ?? is the transformers are spread out along the path and connected (single >> ?? phase) alternately across different phases. >> ?? ?At least that is how it is done out here on the West Coast ! I realize >> ?? there may be exceptions in really old areas of the country, particularly >> ?? along the East Coast. >> ?? ?I am located in San Diego, CA area. What part of the country are you >> in ? >> ?? >> ?? ?Bill....WB6BNQ >> ?? >> ?? _______________________________________________ >> ?? time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >> ?? To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> ?? and follow the instructions there. >> ? >> ? >> ?__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature database 5851 (20110206) __________ >> ? >> ?The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> ? >> ?http://www.eset.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- --Eric _________________________________________ Eric Garner _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
