www.*axtal*.com/data/publ/*aging*_e.pdf
On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 2:32 AM, Don Latham <[email protected]> wrote: > Could you refresh me with the reference or email the paper? I'd like to > give it a read. > Don > > Azelio Boriani > > My starting point is the paper by Neubig on the real vs. predicted > > aging: > > experimenting with the model and try to cut it around the Morion or the > > Oscilloquartz OCXOs. > > > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 12:15 AM, Don Latham <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> There are ways of generating models, such as ARIMA, using past > >> behavior > >> and the models used to tweak filters and so on. The shifts would have > >> to > >> be accounted for as they occur, seems to me. Now the interesting > >> possibility is that a shift does not alter the underlying model for a > >> given crystal???? > >> Has to be tested. > >> Don > >> > >> Azelio Boriani > >> > So it can't be done... the possibility to discipline an OCXO taking > >> the > >> > action from a suitable model should help in speeding up the > >> adjustments > >> > and > >> > avoiding the humps as seen in the Allan deviation plot. > >> > > >> > On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 9:31 PM, Don Latham <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Isn't crystal aging marked by random jumps? perhaps lattice > >> >> rearrangement? Really hard if not impossible to model... > >> >> Don > >> >> > >> >> Azelio Boriani > >> >> > 30mV are -13dBm so maybe it is why the -20dBm is not a suitable > >> >> level > >> >> > for > >> >> > that input. I have the 53132A and the 53181A so I can test (with > >> the > >> >> R&S > >> >> > SML01). Is this problem new? Never tested before? > >> >> > > >> >> > About the OCXO aging: OK, I'm interested in the development of a > >> >> model > >> >> > that > >> >> > can be general enough so that it can be "steered", adjusting its > >> >> > parameters, during the OCXO life. The data (to adjust the > >> >> parameters) > >> >> > will > >> >> > be gathered by the continuous monitoring with the GPS. > >> >> > > >> >> > On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Bernd Neubig > >> <[email protected]> > >> >> > wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Hi Azelio, > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Sorry, the counters are 53131A, not 53151A. The A and B inputs > >> are > >> >> >> specified > >> >> >> from DC to 225 MHz with a sensitivity of y20 mV (rms) up to 100 > >> >> MHz, > >> >> >> <30 mV > >> >> >> (rms) 100 ~ 200 MHz, and <50 mV (rms) 200 ~ 225 MHz. > >> >> >> The problem can be at either input alone. The problem is only in > >> >> the > >> >> >> range > >> >> >> between 100 MHz and <200 MHz, observed in automatic trigger > >> mode. > >> >> In > >> >> >> manual > >> >> >> trigger mode the counter does not trigger at all in that freq > >> >> range. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I cannot tell you an aging model for a particular OCXO, and I > >> doubt > >> >> if > >> >> >> anyone can ;) Aging predictions can only be made on individual > >> >> OCXO, > >> >> >> unit > >> >> >> by > >> >> >> unit, and the prediction is only valid over a rather limited > >> time. > >> >> >> Therefore > >> >> >> you must continuously monitor and update your prediction. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Best regards > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Bernd > >> >> >> DK1AG > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > >> >> >> Von: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] > >> >> Im > >> >> >> Auftrag von Azelio Boriani > >> >> >> Gesendet: Freitag, 24. August 2012 17:28 > >> >> >> An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > >> >> >> Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] HP/Agilet counter 53151A trigger > >> problems > >> >> >> > >> >> >> From the datasheet: > >> >> >> A input 10Hz..125MHz min level 25mVrms (-19dBm) B input min > >> 50MHz, > >> >> >> -20dBm > >> >> >> the problem is on A input only? Maybe 150MHz for the A input, > >> being > >> >> >> beyond > >> >> >> the official specifications, requires more signal on one counter > >> >> than > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> other. In the past they all were fine? > >> >> >> I have read your paper on the correlation between the real and > >> >> >> predicted > >> >> >> aging of crystal oscillators. I'm trying to find a suitable > >> model > >> >> for > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> Morion MV201 OCXO or the Oscilloquartz 8663 to implement a > >> Kalman > >> >> >> filter. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Bernd Neubig > >> <[email protected]> > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Hi all, > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I have several HP/Agilent frequency counters 53151A (and > >> 53152A) > >> >> in > >> >> >> my > >> >> >> lab. > >> >> >> > Several of them meanwhile show trigger problems. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I have tested the A and B channel between 5 MHz and 200 MHZ at > >> >> three > >> >> >> > input levels of -10 dBm, 0 dBm and +10 dBm. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Those with trigger problems show erroneous numbers at -10 dBm > >> >> input > >> >> >> > level rather selectively, i.e. mostly at 100 MHz, some also at > >> >> 150 > >> >> >> > MHz, while the are o.k. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Has anyone on this list experienced similar defects and can > >> give > >> >> a > >> >> >> > recommendation how to fix/repair them? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Best regards > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Bernd > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > DK1AG > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > www.axtal.com > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, > >> go > >> >> to > >> >> >> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> >> >> > and follow the instructions there. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go > >> to > >> >> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> >> >> and follow the instructions there. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >> >> >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> >> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> >> >> and follow the instructions there. > >> >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >> >> > To unsubscribe, go to > >> >> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> >> > and follow the instructions there. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and > >> argument > >> >> are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the > >> mind." > >> >> R. Bacon > >> >> "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." > >> >> Ghost in the Shell > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL > >> >> Six Mile Systems LLP > >> >> 17850 Six Mile Road > >> >> POB 134 > >> >> Huson, MT, 59846 > >> >> VOX 406-626-4304 > >> >> www.lightningforensics.com > >> >> www.sixmilesystems.com > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >> >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> >> and follow the instructions there. > >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >> > To unsubscribe, go to > >> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> > and follow the instructions there. > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> -- > >> "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument > >> are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." > >> R. Bacon > >> "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." > >> Ghost in the Shell > >> > >> > >> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL > >> Six Mile Systems LLP > >> 17850 Six Mile Road > >> POB 134 > >> Huson, MT, 59846 > >> VOX 406-626-4304 > >> www.lightningforensics.com > >> www.sixmilesystems.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > > -- > "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument > are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." > R. Bacon > "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." > Ghost in the Shell > > > Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL > Six Mile Systems LLP > 17850 Six Mile Road > POB 134 > Huson, MT, 59846 > VOX 406-626-4304 > www.lightningforensics.com > www.sixmilesystems.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
