Hi

If your definition of timing accuracy is "within 100 ns of GPS time ten minutes 
after lock" then a faster crossover is a better idea. A faster loop will track 
GPS better. If your GPS noise is on the order of  10 ns, your time error will 
be pretty low. An example: 100s loop and 10 ns GPS, => 1x10^-10 noise. 

If your definition of timing accuracy is "best short term stability plot" then 
picking a long crossover is the way to do it. You want the PLL to only kick in 
once it's going to do no harm to the noise signature. An example: 10,000s loop 
and 10 ns GPS => 1x10^-12 noise.

If your GPS noise is lower / higher, the numbers obviously will change 
accordingly. If your GPS noise is dimensioned in one set of units and your OCXO 
noise in another set of units, that's going to require a units conversion 
(pk-pk != rms != 3 sigma etc). 

Bob

On Sep 16, 2012, at 12:40 AM, Tom Van Baak <[email protected]> wrote:

> I worry in your example about the long cross-over time. This may be ideal for 
> frequency stability, but probably is not good for time accuracy. If one is 
> using the GPSDO as a timing reference, I would think a shorter time constant 
> will keep the rms time error down. Has anyone on the list done work 
> optimizing the timing accuracy rather than the frequency stability?
> 
> /tvb
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bob Camp" <[email protected]>
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
> <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 9:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO control loops and correcting quantizationerror
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> If the objective is to build a GPSDO that *needs* a 32 bit D/A as opposed to 
> a 16 to 20 bit part, there are some things you have to consider.
> 
> The output of your GPS has jitter on it. How much jitter is a "that depends" 
> sort of thing, but there's always more jitter than on the output of a good 
> OCXO or Rb. The idea is to get the short term stability of the OCXO or Rb and 
> the long term stability of the GPS. To do that, you are going to set the 
> cross over between the GPS and OCXO at some magic point. Exactly where 
> depends on the actual noise plots of your OCXO and your GPS. With a good 
> DOCXO you can easily have a cross over out in the 1,000 to 5,000 second 
> range. With a Rb the cross over is likely to be in the 100,000 to 200,000 
> second range. If it's closer in you degrade the short term stability of the 
> OCXO or Rb. 
> 
> If the cross over is at 100,000 seconds, everything that happens quicker than 
> 100,000 seconds is ignored by the PLL. Stuff that happens more slowly than 
> 100,000 seconds is corrected by the PLL. No, it's not exactly a brick wall, 
> but it does fundamentally work that way. 
> 
> What ever happens with the DAC quicker than the cross over, passes straight 
> through to the OCXO or Rb. In the case of a 100,000 second cross over, daily 
> temperature cycling in the lab winds up as short term instability and is not 
> corrected by the PLL. Hourly cycles (think HVAC cycles) very much will show 
> up as short term issues that are not corrected. If indeed 32 bits matters, 
> then instability at the 32 bit level will show up. Indeed temperature is not 
> the only issue, noise on the DAC output is also a concern. Johnson noise is 
> one source, there are others. 
> 
> No free lunch…
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
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