I did look at the manual here from twoway I think. And though no schematics it has an awful lot of good information that would let you dive in carefully. I have had far less info to get going on complicated systems like my 5065 that I repaired totally in the blind. It was the loop filter cap. At the time no information at all. I have schematics now. Regards Paul.
On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 6:50 PM, Bob Camp <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi > > Ok here's a minimum of what you would need to "rebuild" a Cs tube: > > 1) A way to open up the tube that could be re-sealed or a full (very > custom) replacement outer shell > 2) A way to scrub it clean of Cs at the molecular level (it's all over the > inside of the tube) > 3) A way to build a new Cs source and target > 4) A way to load the Cs into the source (likely in a vacuum). > 5) A way to mount the new source and target in the tube (also likely in a > vacuum). > 6) A way to line everything up by comparison to something better (like a > Hydrogen Maser) > 7) A way to pump it all down and bake it all out (probably for days) > 8) A way to weld it shut without dirtying it up. Coldweld would be best, > resistance weld might also work. Both require custom dies. > 9) Then there's all the permits, processes, documentation, testing, > evaluation, and other "overhead" that goes into any modern high tech > manufacturing plant. > > Then of course there's the minor item of the research effort to figure out > how to do all this stuff. There's no textbook to follow. There are a small > number of people (maybe a few dozen) who really know all about this sort of > manufacture. > > More or less you are looking at $3M to $5M worth of this and that to get > started with the equipment. Who knows on the research. Yes, I know you > *think* you can do it for less. That's what it will *really* cost before > you know if you are close or not. I've done enough of these systems to see > lots of rosy first pass predictions, and then to see what the outcome > really was. > > There's maybe $2K worth of raw "stuff" in a Cs tube. The rest of the > money you pay when buying a new one goes to all the work involved. There's > a lot of work (and very fancy tooling) involved. Even with all that fancy > stuff they still make a number of duds … > > Bob > > On Oct 3, 2013, at 2:13 PM, paul swed <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Boy am staying clear of the rebuild discussion. Search time nuts the > > details are explicitly explained and interesting. Has to do with > > reactivity, vacuums, and shields. > > Correct mix of the CS stuff. My pharmacy doesn't carry whats needed, > > walmart either. > > Regards > > Paul > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Tom Miller <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> Hi guys, > >> > >> I wonder if the beam current amp is working? Shouldn't I at least see > some > >> noise when I run the gain all the way up? I need to wait until I get the > >> manual to see where to look and what to check. I do know which DAC is > used > >> for the beam gain setting but where to see if it works is not too clear. > >> > >> I know everyone says the tubes can't be rebuilt, but why? > >> > >> Tom > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "paul swed" <[email protected]> > >> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" < > >> [email protected]> > >> Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 11:18 AM > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Fw: FTS 4060 Cesium Time & Frequency Standard, > >> Datum > >> > >> > >> > >> Joe, > >> I did not actually look at the numbers until your email. I did reformat > and > >> clean them up for long term retention. > >> Right you are and will guess the ion pump e is a direct reading at > 2.4..KV > >> The Ion pump I is nice and low > >> Beam is zero or noise or profoundly weak. > >> All of the other voltages look reasonable. > >> Regards > >> Paul > >> WB8TSL > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 9:08 AM, J. L. Trantham <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Suspicious for a dead tube. > >>> > >>> Joe > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: [email protected] [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@**febo.com< > [email protected]>] > >>> On > >>> Behalf Of Tom Miller > >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 9:54 PM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: [time-nuts] Fw: FTS 4060 Cesium Time & Frequency Standard, > Datum > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Just to get this data on the list. > >>> > >>> Here are the measured voltages on U1: > >>> > >>> Pin Fn Voltage Limits > >>> 9 Beam I 0.001 1.01 to 3.73 > >>> 18 Ion Pump E 2.436 1.72 to 3.01 > >>> 7 Ion Pump I 0.020 0 to 2.0 > >>> 19 Elec Multi E 2.060 0.84 to 3.01 > >>> 17 C-Field I 3.65 3.28 to 4.45 (front > >>> panel > >>> sw set at 500) > >>> 16 Cs Oven T 1.379 1.27 to 1.55 > >>> 20 Xtal Oven Pwr 3.57 2.81 to 3.91 > >>> 3 180 MHz Lvl 2.784 0.1 to 4.8 > >>> 2 12.6 MHz Dig 4.84 4.0 to 5.0 > >>> 23 12.6 MHz Ana 1.34 0.35 to 4.28 > >>> 6 +5 Supply 2.427 2.35 to 2.68 > >>> 4 +18 V Supply 2.484 2.42 to 2.68 > >>> 22 - 18 V Supply 2.481 1.72 to 3.52 > >>> 21 Chassis T 3.045 2.62 to 3.44 > >>> > >>> > >>> It has been on for four days. > >>> > >>> When I compare the 10 MHz out to my GPSDO, the frequency matches up > when > >>> the > >>> control (meter 4) passes 3.2 volts. There is no movement in the Beam > >>> current > >>> (meter 3) as control sweeps. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Tom > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: Tom Knox > >>> To: Tom Miller ; Time-Nuts > >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 2:00 PM > >>> Subject: RE: [time-nuts] FTS 4060 Cesium Time & Frequency Standard, > >>> Datum > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> If anyone has a service manual I am also very interested. Thanks > >>> Thomas Knox > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> From: [email protected] > >>>> To: [email protected] > >>>> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 13:22:45 -0400 > >>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FTS 4060 Cesium Time & Frequency Standard, > >>> Datum > >>>> > >>>> Hello Corby, > >>>> > >>>> Thanks for the help. Yes, could you copy me on the information for the > >>> U1 > >>>> chip? I do not have anything other than the user manual from Brooke. > >>> At > >>> this > >>>> time, anything will be a great help. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Best regards, > >>>> Tom > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: <[email protected]> > >>>> To: <[email protected]> > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 11:47 AM > >>>> Subject: [time-nuts] FTS 4060 Cesium Time & Frequency Standard, Datum > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Tom, > >>>> > >>>> On the 4060 you can easily monitor the Ion pump voltage and current, > >>> the > >>>> electron multiplier voltage, and other important parameters by > >>> measuring > >>>> the voltages on the U1 chip on the uP board. > >>>> This saves you fronm having to diconnect stuff to measure the HV and > >>>> such. > >>>> If you don't have a manual showing the pins of U1 I can post to pinout > >>>> here on Time Nuts. > >>>> > >>>> Corby > >>>> > >>>> ______________________________**_________________ > >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >>>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/time-nuts< > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > >>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>>> > >>>> ______________________________**_________________ > >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >>>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/time-nuts< > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > >>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>> > >>> = > >>> ______________________________**_________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go to > >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/time-nuts< > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >>> > >>> ______________________________**_________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/time-nuts< > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >>> > >>> ______________________________**_________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** > >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts< > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> ______________________________**_________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** > >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts< > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
