Hi

The most basic gotcha with WWVB is that propagation can (and does) shift the 
carrier more than a full cycle over the course of a day. That’s at 60 KHz, so 
one 
cycle is a lot (as in 16.666 ppm). Even at one second with a not so great 
receiver
and a poor antenna, GPS should give you ~0.01 ppm. Right up front, you have a 
bit of a problem. 
(Yes I’m mixing measurements in that comparison, but the point is still valid). 

What I keep wondering is - There is no big mystery about the WWVB transmitter's 
 location. You likely know your own location as well. Part of demodulating the 
data
gives you day of the year. From that you can figure out some of the basics of 
the 
propagation effects (sunrise is at X:XX sunset is at … etc). You also could 
grab stuff 
like weather data fairly easily (no idea if that actually helps). If you fit 
out the basic
propagation impacts, WWVB could get a lot better. At the very least, you would 
know
when to ignore the signal. 

So yes, you could do better today than they could back in the good old days in 
terms of 
the propagation coarse effects. 

Unfortunately, there also is data on 24 hour comparisons of WWVB carrier (same 
time of 
day, one day apart). If you pick your time right (noon or midnight), the 
variable propagation 
can be reduced quite a bit. Based on that data, you are doing well at 100 ppt 
over 
24 hours. Might the new modulation help that by 10X? ..maybe.  GPS over a 24 
hour
period should be giving you something in the 0.1 to 0.01 ppt range (same sort 
of pick a likely
stable ionosphere time slot and compare).

Does that make a WWVB device un-interesting? Not by any means. If you stretch 
out the
time, both systems get down into the “I have nothing else that good” range. 
Checking one
against the other is indeed an interesting thing to do. You just need a *lot* 
of time to do it.

Bob    


> On Nov 22, 2015, at 12:41 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Nov 22, 2015, at 7:47 AM, paul swed <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> As mentioned a nice answer to the wwvb modulation change.
>> I looked up the parts and it seems that they have gone into the NOS state.
>> Though you can get some from digikey and such especially in the SOIC
>> package. Also the VCO isn't available.
>> It appears that the Chinese sight has the lmc6484 and LM387n at reasonable
>> prices for small quantities. Most likely will order from there.
>> Have not checked out the PIC chip yet.
>> The 74HCXX are common and reasonable.
> 
> That’s kind of a shame. I’m sure a redesign with modern SMD parts could be 
> accomplished.
> 
> The big question is how the stability of a wwvb disciplined oscillator would 
> compare to a GPS disciplined one (all other things being equal). Well, it’s a 
> big question for me, since I have no idea, but I imagine simply asking here 
> will give an immediate answer. :)
> 
> I’d have to guess that the PLL would behave better given a 60 kHz reference 
> rather than a 1 Hz one. But how stable is that 60 kHz reference after going 
> through, what, a thousand miles of ionosphere or so?
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected]
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.

_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected]
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Reply via email to