That sure beats a BC21 that many hams (and Post Office Techs) used long
ago.

So long ago Google doesn't  want to help and memory has faded over half
a century.

Cheers,
Will 

On 30/12/15 09:45, Mark Spencer wrote:
> Hi Cash.   
>
> Here is a bit of a narrative and some comments from an amateur radio 
> perspective.
>
> I got into the time nuts hobby as off shoot from amateur radio.   I was using 
> a pc sound card to evaluate the frequency stability of some of my ham radios 
> by looking at the change in "beat note" when receiving wwv in SSB mode.
>
> I realized that I couldn't use wwv as a frequency standard due to Doppler 
> shift and in practice my radios with tcxo's were stable enough that it wasn't 
> clear if I was seeing Doppler shift from wwv or the radios drifting.   
>
> After some research I purchased a gpsdo from James Miller G3RUH which 
> provided a suitable frequency source to replace wwv for my purposes.   Later 
> I wanted to see accurate that GPSDO was.  To make a long story short....
>
> Ended up buying half a dozen HP5370 and HP5335 time interval counters a 
> Jackson labs fury GPSDO, two Z3805 GPSDO's, a thunderbolt, a BVA, a FTS1050, 
> an HP105, two time source 2700's (with prs 10 rb's) various stand alone rb's, 
> ocxo's, various HP5328 counters with 10811 ocxo's, an NTP server etc.
>
> Wrote  some scripts using Ulrich's plotter software to log the data to text 
> files and processed the data using John's time lab software (thanks !).  
>
> Couldn't quite convince my self to buy a cesium standard and a time pod 
> (figured I would end up wanting to get two or three of each once I started 
> down that road.)
>
> I was (and am) more than satisfied with the performance of the G3RUH GPSDO 
> for my amateur radio activities.
>
> At the time work involved long periods of travel so collecting data for a few 
> weeks at a time then looking at it later worked out ok.  Later I also had 
> little time or interest for Amateur radio due to travel.
>
> After a few years I decided to get back into amateur radio.   I still use the 
> G3RUH gpsdo to check the frequency of my VHF and up gear.   It works well for 
> this as it produces useable harmonics to over 1.3 GHz and it runs from a 13.8 
> volt power source.  From time to time I still compare the G3RUH GPSDO to my 
> other references.   
>
> I have found for VHF and up weak signal work it is very helpful to have a 
> suitable frequency standard.   
>
> Regarding frequency calibration of my radios.  In practice listening to 
> harmonics from the G3RUH GPSDO with the radio set to SSB mode and looking at 
> the resulting audio frequency works well for me.  So far I've resisted the 
> temptation to modify my radios to accept an external frequency reference, but 
> checking their accuracy prior to use is part of my setup routine.   I suspect 
> at some point I'll acquire radios that need an external reference source.   
> I've ear marked a few ocxo's for this purpose.
>
> Time synchronization is also important for some of the weak signal modes and 
> having my own NTP server is helpful.
>
> For amateur radio use (with some time nuts interest) two GPSDO's, a decent 
> time interval counter and a frequency counter capable of measuring 
> frequencies of interest (and able to accept an external frequency reference) 
> along with a PC with a sound card is probably a good starting point IMHO.   A 
> solution for time synchronization is also worth having especially for 
> operations in locations without Internet connectivity.   A GPSDO with a one 
> pps output can help facilitate this.
>
> In terms of hints.   
>
> Quality double shielded cables are useful.   Conversely cheap cables caused 
> me various problems.
>
> Terminating un used connections is also helpful.
>
> A decent oscilloscope is useful for viewing wave forms and looking at signal 
> levels.
>
> In my experience getting the most performance out of gear such as the HP5370 
> requires attention to detail re signal levels and trigger set points.   A 
> selection of attenuators and a decent scope is helpful.
>
> I also found using the BVA as the clock source for the HP5370's was helpful 
> (vs using the built in 10811's.)
>
> The prologix gpib to Ethernet adapters worked well for me.
>
> If I was doing it again on a budget for ham radio use:
>
> I'd probably still buy the G3RUH GPSDO, along with one other GPSDO.
>
> I'd probably pass on the HP5370 series counters and look for a used HP53132 
> counter and buy a dedicated frequency counter for measuring RF frequencies.  
> (I have no personal experience yet with the HP 53132 but it seems to be well 
> regarded.)
>
> I believe the HP5370's are getting a bit long in the tooth now.  I bought 
> four working used ones and now have two that are fully functional.  I expect 
> I could get at least one more working if tried.   I also needed a special 
> pulse generator for the alignment procedure.   I picked up at least one of 
> those as well.   In hindsight I'd probably settle for a bit less performance 
> in return for (hopefully) less hassle and buy newer Hp 53132's.
>
> Not sure I'd bother with the ocxo's, rb's etc until I had a definite need for 
> that type of gear.
>
> Doubt I'd ever buy a BVA for amateur radio use but I believe a clean FTS1050 
> would be worthwhile if the price was right.   (The packaging, battery backup 
> system, external DC power inputs Etc.. has advantages in my view for Ham use.)
>
> I'd still want to setup some form of NTP server.
>
> All the usual cautions about buying used gear apply.
>
> Hope this is of some interesest.   Others will likely have other opinions.
>
> All the best
> Mark S
> VE7AFZ
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 29, 2015, at 6:51 AM, Cash Olsen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Comments and critique are welcome and encouraged.  Input for the actual
>> paper from HAMS and / or time-nuts regarding current projects will be much
>> appreciated. Time-nuts members might wish share personal anecdotes of how
>> they got started being a time-nut, or got started working with WWVB, GPS,
>> or GPSDO. Some of the old timers may remember the Shera project and can
>> share comments about it.
>>
>> I'd like to have inputs by this Thursday for final abstract submission
>> deadline on
>> Friday 1 January 2016. Presentation is in Albuquerque, NM on February 27,
>> 2016.
>>
>> DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT
>>
>> A High Quality Time and Frequency Laboratory on a Budget
>> By S. Cash Olsen KD5SSJ
>>
>> Following a brief retrospective look at time synchronization and frequency
>> syntonization by various methods, this paper will recall the seminal
>> publication of Brooks Shera W5OJM (SK) in QST magazine in 1998 which
>> introduced many amateurs to time and frequency measurement based on the
>> Global Positioning System (GPS). Low cost and high quality GNSS (Global
>> Navigational Satellite System, the USA DoD subset is GPS and will be used
>> generically in this paper) receivers have spawned many recent and current
>> projects by HAMS, world wide, to discipline both quartz and atomic
>> (rubidium) oscillators. With amateur projects as varied as weak signals
>> (such as QRSS, WSJT, EME) and microwave mountain topping to synthetic
>> aperture and steered arrays of antennas, frequency coordination and time
>> synchronization are of great importance to many Amateur Radio enthusiasts.
>> This paper will offer technical insight into the methods and techniques for
>> equipping a very high quality time and frequency laboratory on an amateur's
>> budget, approximately the cost of a used transceiver. Attention will be
>> given to the distinction between frequency (FLL) and phase (PLL) lock
>> loops, sawtooth correction of 1PPS signal from GPS, distribution of
>> reference oscillators and timing signals, Four Channel Dual Mixing methods,
>> Time Interval Counters, as well as, tips and tricks to maintain high
>> accuracy in measurements. Briefly, I will show how this subject speaks
>> directly to the charter of the Amateur Radio Service, Part 97.1
>> (b)(c)(d)(e).
>>
>> DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT
>>
>> -- 
>> S. Cash Olsen KD5SSJ
>> ARRL Technical Specialist
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected]
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>>
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