The 8660 is really a sweep generator designed for alignment of IF stages of airband and satellite gear. Hence its odd frequency selections and it's miserable phase noise performance that being said I have a couple of them and the are good generators for general purpose use if you respect their limitations
Content by Scott Typos by Siri > On Jan 15, 2016, at 12:58 AM, Rob Sherwood. <r...@nc0b.com> wrote: > > The 8660 is a rather messy generator with five loops. Its phase noise spec > within a 30 kHz bandwidth is nominally 4 dB worse than an HP 3336C. Of course > the frequency range of the 8660 is vastly greater than the 3336C, depending > on the plugin. There were 4 versions of the 8660, A, B, C & D. I mention the > 3336C because while a very handy synthesizer, its phase noise is terrible > compared to the 8640A/B. It depends on what you want to do with your > generator. As you said, if it can be purchased and shipped for $100, why not. > Alignment of the 8660 is a pain, so expect a project. Hopefully it gets > packed properly. Shipping damage of large and heavy test equipment is a > really big problem. > > Rob, NC0B > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jan 14, 2016, at 4:02 PM, "Nathan Johnson" <jdo...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> What does the group think of the HP 8660? Just scored a broken one too cheap >> to >> pass up. I know it's not gonna be the last signal generator I buy, but for >> under >> $100 shipped it should be an interesting project. >> Nathan KK4REY >> >> Sent using CloudMagic Email >> [https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email_footer_2] >> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 02:50, Discussion of precise time and frequency >> measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: >> Robs correct on that front. Did not have time to respond till now. >> The 8640 is not some sort of synthesized gen. >> But it has one of the lowest noise floors of any generator. >> So I have several of them and then the synthesized gens like those >> mentioned. >> >> Hear that sucking sound? >> Its quicksand. >> >> Regards >> Paul >> WB8TSL >> >>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Rob Sherwood. <r...@nc0b.com> wrote: >>> >>> It is more of a counter-assisted drift stabilizer than a true phase lock >>> as would happen if locking a 10811 to an external standard. Rob, NC0B >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On Jan 11, 2016, at 1:00 PM, "bownes" <bow...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The 8640 will lock to an external 5Mhz reference. That's what the BNC in >>> the heatsink is for. At least that is where it is on mine. >>>> >>>> The trick is doing a good divide by two. >>>> >>>> However, that said, the 8640 tops out at ~1024MHz, which if you get >>> interested in even the lower microwaves, is not quite enough. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> KI2L >>>> >>>>> On Jan 11, 2016, at 09:47, Rob Sherwood. <r...@nc0b.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The HP 8647A may be the worst signal generator HP ever made. The 8656B >>> won't even go down low enough in level to make a noise floor measurement on >>> a modern transceiver. Sure you can add external attenuation, but you won't >>> know about how much leakage is occurring. Otherwise why wouldn't HP have >>> added another 15 dB attenuation in the box? That is why I mentioned the >>> 8657B. Yes the 8662A's reliability issue is the power supply. No question >>> not a starter generator. The 8642A was never intended for field repair, >>> but it is the only generator with low enough phase noise to test top radios >>> today, and something a ham could afford. Again, not the first sig gen that >>> should be on your list >>>>> >>>>> Rob, NC0B >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 11, 2016, at 8:01 AM, "Nathan Johnson" <jdo...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I really appreciate all the help. I really like that Ref0 combination, >>> I don't >>>>>> see any Ref1s available right now, but you are saying that any decent >>>>>> GPS+Arduino can substitute? Should I be looking in the archives for >>> that, or is >>>>>> there a website? >>>>>> Minor clarification to my earlier post about the signal gen, I am >>> aware that the >>>>>> 8640 won't lock to an external reference. I had intended that to read >>>>>> 8640-something or 50-something. I'm watching an 8647 and an 8656b on >>> the usual >>>>>> site at the moment. That 8662 looks beautiful, but it's a huge >>> investment for a >>>>>> piece of old gear that has a reputation for being a bit... Cranky and >>>>>> opinionated. I have no practical need for that now, so I won't sign up >>> for that >>>>>> kind of challenge until I do. >>>>>> I'm quite familiar with how this stuff multiplies, I have a Tektronix >>> scope >>>>>> collection, and have been a lurker on the TekScopes list for about a >>> year. There >>>>>> is a running joke on that list about "scope acquisition disorder". I'm >>> pretty >>>>>> sure that I'm infected, but I only have 5 scopes in the house at the >>> moment, so >>>>>> it's not that bad... Yet! >>>>>> >>>>>> Nathan KK4REY >>>>>> Sent using CloudMagic Email >>>>>> [ >> https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email_footer_2 >>> ] >>>>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 04:28, Discussion of precise time and frequency >>>>>> measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: >>>>>> Good thread everyone. >>>>>> Nathan you have received a lot of wisdom and humor today. >>>>>> Yes for sub $200 you can be in good shape. >>>>>> If lucent remember a Ref0 needs an arduino and a good GPS 1 PPS. >>>>>> Though frankly even neo6s play well. >>>>>> If a Ref1 it has a GPS in and no need for the arduino. The $175 gets >>> you a >>>>>> ref1 and ref0 combo that tie together usually with a cable thats >>> shipped >>>>>> with the units. >>>>>> Mine were brand spanking new. NOS. >>>>>> Good luck. >>>>>> To Ron ohhhh yes no shed or anything but the gear builds up. Darn >>> thing is >>>>>> this stuff actually last longer then an iPhone99X due out tomorrow I am >>>>>> sure. >>>>>> Paul >>>>>> WB8TSL >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Rob Sherwood. <r...@nc0b.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Paul, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your last paragraph was a hoot. A ham friend of mine recently rented a >>>>>>> storage shed to keep all his spare test equipment and parts units. >>> Another >>>>>>> ham friend used to have four storage units to store all his "stuff". >>> The >>>>>>> disease is not curable with either time or antibiotics. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My XYL will have to deal with two homes with labs and ham shacks, 7 >>>>>>> towers, 13 yagis, etc. when I am SK. Need I say more. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rob >>>>>>> NC0B >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of >>> paul swed >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:56 PM >>>>>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nathan, >>>>>>> Bob shared a link for the Lucent units and a great amount of detail >>> has >>>>>>> been shared on Time-nuts about them. They will do what you want. The >>> Ref0 >>>>>>> requires a external GPS receiver and another Time-Nuts Arduino. It >>> works >>>>>>> really well and the quality of the ref0 seems to be that of the 1pps >>>>>>> feeding it. >>>>>>> But they also make a no brainer pair that has a ref0 and ref1 that >>> has a >>>>>>> built in GPS receiver. They were $175 but they go all over the place >>> in >>>>>>> price. But it does just work. >>>>>>> Trace-ability is an interesting word around this group. From your >>>>>>> description not sure thats really a need. Accept for the oven >>> oscillator >>>>>>> they all are great and yes even really good oven oscillators are >>> great and >>>>>>> can actually be amazing. Not cheap at all though. >>>>>>> You describe your counter and sig gen they have a resolution of .1Hz >>> so >>>>>>> going further isn't really all that helpful. >>>>>>> Now here is the real issue you face and its far more of an issue then >>> you >>>>>>> expect. >>>>>>> First the generator and oscillator and suddenly you find yourself >>>>>>> acquiring more stuff. Maybe a RB, then a Cesium, distribution >>> amplifiers, >>>>>>> better antennas. Sound familiar? You are doooomed. Back away real >>> fast. >>>>>>> Good luck >>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>> WB8TSL >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Bob Camp <kb...@n1k.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Jan 10, 2016, at 1:25 PM, Nathan Johnson <jdo...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>> I'm a ham radio operator, for just a few years, and electronics nut >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> many >>>>>>>>> more. I have been reading the archives and trying to learn a bit. I >>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>> wanting >>>>>>>>> to develop an accurate frequency standard for "lab" and radio use. I >>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>> that I >>>>>>>>> have 3 basic options that are possible on my budget, a decent >>>>>>>>> OCXO-based >>>>>>>> device, >>>>>>>>> a rubidium standard, and a GPSDO. My current uses are to supply >>>>>>>>> accurate >>>>>>>> timing >>>>>>>>> to a signal generator(not yet purchased, HP 8640/8650-something) and >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> frequency >>>>>>>>> counter(Fluke 1953), mostly used in aligning radios. >>>>>>>>> In the near future I am hoping to expand that to a homebrew HF >>>>>>>>> transceiver(probably clocking a DDS chip of some sort), and some >>>>>>>>> higher frequency(possibly up to 10GHz) transverters. >>>>>>>>> So what I have learned so far about each option: >>>>>>>>> -OCXO is probably stable enough for what I am trying to do, but by >>>>>>>>> itself provides no guarantee of absolute accuracy(I'm looking at the >>>>>>>>> microwave operators "weapon of choice", the Isotemp 134-10), has an >>>>>>>>> adjustment pin >>>>>>>> for a >>>>>>>>> tuning voltage, but no idea what an appropriate value is for that >>>>>>>>> voltage without access to a more accurate standard. I will probably >>>>>>>>> build an >>>>>>>> OCXO device >>>>>>>>> of some kind anyway as an interim measure while I earn for the money >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> obtain >>>>>>>>> something better, and to validate a distribution amp within the lab >>>>>>> etc. >>>>>>>>> -Rubidium Standard seems like a very nice idea, but it's still not >>>>>>>> traceable in >>>>>>>>> terms of absolute accuracy(although the adjustment range of the >>>>>>>>> available standards appears to be several orders of magnitude better >>>>>>>>> than I am >>>>>>>> likely to >>>>>>>>> need). The available standards are being re-imported from China, >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> unknown >>>>>>>>> hours or life remaining, and in some cases unknown condition. They >>>>>>>> appear to be >>>>>>>>> power hogs. A $200 gamble. >>>>>>>>> -GPSDOs have many options available, and are referenced to primary >>>>>>>> standards. >>>>>>>>> Pretty sure this is where I want to go. I'm looking at Item# >>>>>>>> 231803015799 on the >>>>>>>>> usual auction site, and this seems to be everything I need? I also >>>>>>>> looked at >>>>>>>>> item# 111514491254, but there doesn't seem to be any documentation >>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>> what's >>>>>>>>> inside. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The first item you reference is a Nortel GPSTM with all the “stuff” >>> to >>>>>>>> make it work other than the power supply. If you dig into the >>>>>>>> archives, there is a *lot* of information on them there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The second item is a Chinese Ham built GPSDO without the antenna. It >>>>>>>> has the nice feature of being actively developed. If you can read >>>>>>>> Chinese, you can tune in to the lists that have information on it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Of the two, I’d go for the first one from a US seller that I’ve had >>>>>>>> good luck with. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A somewhat more “do it yourself” option is: >>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/221852021307?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPa >>>>>>>> geName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> combined with a GPS receiver board. They also are available in a “2 >>>>>>>> for a bit less” form from the same seller. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Each item has it’s plusses and minuses. The third item has a pretty >>>>>>>> clean >>>>>>>> 15 MHz output for microwave use. >>>>>>>> All of the 10 MHz outputs are a bit dirty noise wise if you decide to >>>>>>>> multiply them up to > 10 GHz. The normal approach in that case is to >>>>>>>> lock up a clean 100 to 150 MHz range VCXO to the GPSDO and then >>>>>>>> multiply the VCXO output to microwaves. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All of them are quite adequate to supply a reference to a signal >>>>>>>> generator or a counter. All are good enough for normal HF radio use. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bob >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Am I missing key points here? Or am I headed on the right path? >>>>>>>> Appriciate any >>>>>>>>> and all input. >>>>>>>>> Nathan KK4REY >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent using CloudMagic Email >>>>>>>>> [ >>> https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email >>>>>>>> _footer_2 >>>>>>>> ] >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> If this email is spam, report it to >> https://support.onlymyemail.com/view/report_spam/ODExMjI6MTg0MTUzMTgyNTpyb2JAbmMwYi5jb206ZGVsaXZlcmVk >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> If this email is spam, report it to >> https://support.onlymyemail.com/view/report_spam/ODExMjI6MTg0MTY4OTMyMzpyb2JAbmMwYi5jb206ZGVsaXZlcmVk >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> If this email is spam, report it to >> https://support.onlymyemail.com/view/report_spam/ODExMjI6MTg0MTgyMjg0Nzpyb2JAbmMwYi5jb206ZGVsaXZlcmVk >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> >> -- >> If this email is spam, report it to >> https://support.onlymyemail.com/view/report_spam/ODExMjI6MTg0MzAwOTY3Mzpyb2JAbmMwYi5jb206ZGVsaXZlcmVk > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.