HI

DMTD = Dual Mixer Time Difference

Single Mixer = what is commonly used for most things. 

If you have a single mixer setup, just put the two inputs in quadrature, attach 
to a sound card and you have all you need for phase noise.

Bob

> On Oct 1, 2016, at 4:30 PM, Bob Stewart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bob,
> I don't have a DMTD breadboarded up for testing.  This was just a test of the 
> new LPF using only a single Mini Circuits ZLW-1H DBM, and things kind of 
> progressed from looking at the output of the LPF on the scope to "I wonder 
> what I would see on the 3456A?" sort of thing.  I'm running a 
> holdover/recovery test on the code and hardware changes to get a reliable 
> 1PPS from my GPSDO, so there is some very slow movement over the range of 0 
> to 100ns.
> 
> Bob
> 
>      From: Bob Camp <[email protected]>
> To: Bob Stewart <[email protected]>; Discussion of precise time and frequency 
> measurement <[email protected]> 
> Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2016 3:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Measuring phase with an HP 3456A?
> 
> Hi
> 
> What is the beat note coming out of the DMTD?  
> 
> Put another way:
> 
> DMTD involves three oscillators. Two are on roughly the same frequency and 
> the third is 
> offset from the other two. The difference frequency is typically something 
> like 10 Hz. 
> It does not *have* to be 10 Hz, but that is one way to do it. 
> 
> So, moving on using 10 Hz (which may be wrong):
> 
> If you are at (say) 10 Hz, you get a 1x10^6 “error multiplication” on the 
> output. One cycle 
> at 10 MHz gives you one cycle at 10 Hz. The one cycle is 10% of 10 MHz, it’s 
> 0.1 ppm 
> of 10 MHz. You get a 10 degree phase change at 10 Hz for each 10 degree phase 
> change
> at 10 MHz. 
> 
> The 10 Hz offset limits your phase noise process. The upper (or lower) 
> sideband wraps around
> at 10 Hz and then starts dumping back into the other sideband’s data. You 
> also need to have a 
> signal processing chain that will tolerate the carrier being “in band”. 
> Between the two … not
> such a great way to do it. 
> 
> It’s *much* easier to simply hook up a single mixer (half of what you have 
> already) and look at 
> the two sources in quadrature. Then the sidebands line up. The carrier is 
> gone. The dynamic
> range can be *much* less. 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
>> On Oct 1, 2016, at 2:32 PM, Bob Stewart <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> I've been spending a small amount of my time looking into making a sort of 
>> hybrid DMTD with a pair of DBMs up front feeding the stereo input to a sound 
>> card.  So, I got the 100KHz LPF back from Oshpark and hooked it up to my 
>> scope for verification - an obvious step.  Then I hooked it up to my 3456A 
>> just for grins.  (The two DBM inputs are 10MHz outputs from two different 
>> GPSDOs).  So, as I watch this, I think the obvious question: can this 
>> measure phase angle better than the 5370A?  I guess I need to send it 
>> through a full 100ns of phase change to get a calibration value.  So, who's 
>> been down this road and what did you discover?
>> Bob
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> 
> 
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