Hi Some (but not all) of the resonant structures in the MEMS parts are effectively multi resonator / multi peak structures. Because of this the phase noise has multiple major bumps in it as you get into the region of all the peaks. Thats not going to give you great close in phase noise or ADEV. Since the manufacturers are often a bit unclear on “what’s inside” you need be a bit careful as you sort through the different parts out there. Even after sorting, you still run the risk of an “improved” design suddenly replacing the one you decided on.
So much fun !!! Bob > On Mar 14, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Magnus Danielson <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Hi, > > Some claims that MEMS will kill crystals. It will surely eat a good market > share, but I think there is applications where MEMS is not mature enough > compared to crystals. > > Another aspect is that various forms of synthesis technologies now exists, so > that a high frequency CMOS oscillator is locked and divided down. Works > sufficiently well for a whole bunch of applications. > > Again, your milage may vary and there is applications where you need the real > deal or the right stuff. > > Cheers, > Magnus > > > On 03/14/2017 01:06 PM, Bob Camp wrote: >> Hi >> >>> On Mar 14, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Chris Albertson <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I think what he means is that the typical device sold today has four >>> terminals not two. It looks like a crystal because it is inside a >>> little silver can but has four lead wires Power, ground and "output" >>> and the fourth lead might not be used. It is an "XO" not an "X". >>> >>> But I argue that every one of these device has a crystal inside. So >>> they still make crystals, just you don't see them >> >> These days, they may well have a MEMS resonator in them. No quartz and >> no crystal. Good luck on the close in noise if that’s what they are doing …. >> >> Bob >> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 12:07 AM, Bryan _ <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> sorry, what do you mean by "complete oscillator" have outnumbered loose >>>> crystals? >>>> >>>> >>>> -=Bryan=- >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: time-nuts <[email protected]> on behalf of Richard (Rick) >>>> Karlquist <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: March 12, 2017 4:38 PM >>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Bye-Bye Crystals >>>> >>>> I got a job in 1975 to design Konel's first synthesized radio, which >>>> was to obsolete their crystal controlled radios. That's over 40 years >>>> ago. The other trend (not mentioned) is that since 20 years ago or >>>> so, complete oscillator sales have vastly outnumbered sales of loose >>>> crystals. >>>> >>>> Rick N6RK >>>> >>>> On 3/11/2017 8:51 PM, Bob Camp wrote: >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> International’s main business was re-channeling non-synthesized radios >>>>> and replacing >>>>> broken crystals in various pieces of com gear. It’s been a *lot* of years >>>>> since the last of the >>>>> non-synthesized radios came out. The business probably has been dropping >>>>> off pretty steadily >>>>> for many years … >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 11, 2017, at 10:39 PM, jimlux <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/11/17 4:30 PM, Scott McGrath wrote: >>>>>>> From the tone of the letter it sounds like the bank cancelled line of >>>>>>> credit, >>>>>> >>>>>> Or, he wants to retire and nobody wants to carry it on. His dad started >>>>>> it in 1950, the son picked it up in 1970. It's 47 years later. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Which is stupid given that much of their line is military which is >>>>>>> getting a huge boost in spending >>>>>> >>>>>> Plenty of other crystal and oscillator manufacturers around. >>>>>> >>>>>> There's also a change in what kinds of crystals are needed. I suspect >>>>>> most things being built and designed today use the crystal as a "master >>>>>> oscillator" that is used to drive some sort of synthesis chain. The need >>>>>> for "I have to have a 12.345,324 Hz crystal" is going away. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mar 11, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Bryan _ <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Disappearing or manufacturing just moving overseas?. Video at the >>>>>>>> bottom is interesting, classic. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/ >>>> [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVF.LElrlkkbByR3K%2f6qfaeHjg&pid=Api]<http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/> >>>> >>>> So Long, and Thanks for all the >>>> Crystals<http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/> >>>> hackaday.com >>>> There was a time when anyone involved with radio transmitting -- ham >>>> operators, CB'ers, scanner enthusiasts, or remote control model fans -- >>>> had a collection of ... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -=Bryan=- >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> time-nuts Info Page - American Febo >>>> Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> >>>> www.febo.com >>>> time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise >>>> time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection >>>> of prior postings to ... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> time-nuts Info Page - American Febo >>>> Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> >>>> www.febo.com >>>> time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise >>>> time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection >>>> of prior postings to ... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> time-nuts Info Page - American Febo >>>> Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> >>>> www.febo.com >>>> time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise >>>> time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection >>>> of prior postings to ... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> time-nuts Info Page - American Febo >>>> Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> >>>> www.febo.com >>>> time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise >>>> time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection >>>> of prior postings to ... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Chris Albertson >>> Redondo Beach, California >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
