Paul, Cesium 133 is a stable isotope in terms of nuclear decay, but it is still an alkali metal and as such needs to be properly handled. Cesium combined with water forms a very strong base which etches glass for instance.
Then the amounts of it and how hard to get to it is another things. It's safer in a cesium tube than in a glass ampule, but you can make both safe in transport. Cheers, Magnus On 05/19/2018 09:49 PM, paul swed wrote: > Bob > I believe that the Cesium 133 as I recall actually isn't. > There was a document from HP. But its been a long time. > I will bet folks ship the 5061s all the time without a thought either way. > Just saying. Neither right or wrong. > > Regards > Paul > > On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 2:18 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> Ok …. errr …. shipping …. about that. >> >> Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and >> shipping >> hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly >> reasons >> the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a >> Cs >> standard falls into the hazardous category. >> >> So, to properly ship a Cs standard, you need to be properly trained and >> certified >> as a Hazmat shipper. You then need to register that training certificate >> with your >> favorite shipper and verify that they accept the certificate. They then >> come out >> and check your paperwork system to be sure it’s up to the proper >> standards. >> Once all that is accomplished you can originate a shipment of a Cs >> standard. >> Yes, there are a couple of fees involved in all that. >> >> If all that sounds trivial or easy …. it’s not. Figure on a coupe of >> months to get >> it all done. Once you do get it all done you can put a nice big Hazmat >> label on >> the package and ship it out ( with of course an added charge for handling >> the rest of the process ). If you do it once you at least will know what >> is needed >> for the annual renewal of certification and re-inspection process. ( and >> the fees >> involved ….) >> >> So ….errrr …. yes. The bottom line is that even if a railroad locomotive >> hits >> the UPS truck, you aren’t going to get Cs all over the place. The risk of >> actually >> hurting anybody with Cs is essentially zero. This whole shipping process >> is >> probably not as risky as crossing the street when the “don’t walk” sign is >> flashing. >> >> Be aware though that if you are shipping one and label it as a Cs >> standard, ( without >> all the proper Hazmat shipping certifications ) you may get into all >> sorts of nonsense. >> If somebody spots it ( and that has happened ) your package is not going >> to get delivered. >> If it is in transit when noticed ( = they already accepted it) It probably >> is not going to get >> returned to you. I’d bet you at least get a bill for disposing of it …. >> >> Equally if you ship one and don’t do it properly there is a slight chance >> of it getting >> noticed ( think in terms of a damaged box that gets attended to ) …. at >> that point >> all sorts of nasty legal sorts of things could happen. >> >> Just another of life’s little pieces of excitement …. >> >> Bob >> >>> On May 19, 2018, at 1:36 PM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Bobs >>> Comments are on target. >>> The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other >>> stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube. >>> This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may >> not >>> clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt >> to >>> recover the tube. >>> >>> In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state. >> The >>> beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good. >>> The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading >> out >>> like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the >>> noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact >>> Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam >>> current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks. >> The >>> tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another >>> much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely. >>> >>> The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes >>> are pretty much dead. >>> >>> As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam >>> current (If you actually have any) right off the tube. >>> So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock. >>> Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is >>> asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago >> when I >>> picked up my 2nd 5061. >>> I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely >> gets >>> a discount we don't. >>> >>> Regards >>> Paul >>> WB8TSL >>> >>> >>> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On May 19, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Dana Whitlow <k8yumdoo...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that >> it's >>>>> possible >>>>> to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube? If not, >> I'm >>>>> terribly >>>> >>>> Simple answer - no. The ones we are playing with came out *long* before >>>> you could do >>>> anything like that in a practical way. Even today I know of no atomic >>>> standard made by >>>> anybody that does something like that. >>>> >>>> >>>>> surprised and disappointed. >>>>> >>>>> Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run until >> it >>>>> reaches exhaustion? Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what? >>>> >>>> >>>> Rated life on a high performance tube is in the 5 to 7 year range. I >> have >>>> indeed proven that >>>> to be correct with a couple of tubes run on a 24/7/365 basis. A >> “standard >>>> grade” tube should >>>> run for 2 or 3 times that long. A lot depends on exactly which model >> tube >>>> from what era and >>>> who made the specific tube. >>>> >>>> Tubes are not the only thing that dies in a Cs standard. The older ones >> ( >>>> = what we play with) >>>> are mostly full of leaded parts described in manuals and schematics. >> They >>>> may not all be made >>>> anymore, but various substitutes are out there. Also, chassis for Cs >>>> standards with dead >>>> tubes are pretty common. It’s the tubes we are most likely to run out >> of …. >>>> >>>> Of course you *can* get a nice new tube from the factory. Last time I >> did >>>> that the bill was >>>> about $38,000. That included them putting it in. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dana >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi >>>>>> >>>>>> Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in >> the >>>>>> tube. You can >>>>>> look at beam current and make a guess. All that really will tell you >> is >>>>>> that the fuel >>>>>> gauge is on empty or at least just off of empty. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bob >>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell <p...@bicknells.f2s.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Doug >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is it possible to test its operation and >>>>>>> can the time left on the cesium be calculated Regards Paul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of >> Doug >>>>>> Millar >>>>>>> via time-nuts >>>>>>> Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04 >>>>>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual. >>>> The >>>>>>> unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since >>>> then. >>>>>>> There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not >>>>>> tested it >>>>>>> recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The >> unit >>>>>> is >>>>>>> in great physical condition. Asking $600 plus shipping from Long >>>> Beach, >>>>>> CA. >>>>>>> 90806 >>>>>>> I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary >>>>>> resistance >>>>>>> standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very >>>> reasonable. >>>>>>> Thanks, Doug K6JEY >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>> No virus found in this message. >>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>>> Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15670 - Release Date: >>>>>> 05/19/18 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.