Hi Well if you have a magic piece of code that will do the trick, why don’t you share it with the rest of us? In …. errr …. 50+ years of looking at the problem, nobody else seems to have come up with an answer. It’s not because people have not tried. They’ve been working on this sort of thing since at least the 60’s. It was at the heart of some really big problems the DOD had with HF and VLF links. They poured some massive chunks of money into it.
Bob > On Aug 31, 2018, at 12:30 PM, Scott McGrath <scmcgr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Strangely enough there are these devices called ‘computers’ which are rumored > to be able to perform measurements and mathematical calculations. > > One of these ‘computers’ might be profitably employed to perform the > necessary measurements calculations and deliver a useful output, > > Employing a Mentat would be expensive for this task... > > > On Aug 31, 2018, at 11:37 AM, Tom Holmes <thol...@woh.rr.com> wrote: > > Uh, folks...Would the apparently still on hiatus TVB approve of this on-going > Urinary Olympiad? Just asking. And hoping post this won’t start another one. > > Tom Holmes, N8ZM > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com> On Behalf Of Bob kb8tq > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 11:16 AM > To: Martin VE3OAT <ve3...@storm.ca>; Discussion of precise time and frequency > measurement <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV and legal issues > > Hi > > That works fine if you are doing things manual to check a local standard. If > you are trying to > disipline a few thousand cell towers 24 hours a day … not so much. It also > works for > checking frequency. What modern systems need is time. That gets you into a > whole > world of resolving and identifying individual edges. The WWVB signal really > was never > set up for this. Loran-C is an example of a signal that was designed to > identify a specific > edge. > > Bob > >> On Aug 31, 2018, at 10:30 AM, Martin VE3OAT <ve3...@storm.ca> wrote: >> >> But the diurnal phase shifts at VLF are predictable and largely repeatable. >> Ignore the phase at night and use only the phase records during the day when >> an all-daylight propagation path exists. You might have to "correct" the >> absolute phase reading by some multiple of the RF period, but with a low >> rate of local standard oscillator drift, this is a simple matter of >> arithmetic. Back in the day, I managed Sulzer crystal oscillators at 5 field >> sites from my office and could maintain phase continuity for weeks at a >> time, until we had to diddle the dial on one or several of them to correct >> for crystal aging. Then it was just more arithmetic again. Several of the >> oscillators had such low drift rates that all I needed was one daily phase >> reading from the VLF phase tracking receiver (Tracor 599Js) at those sites >> to know the frequency of the Sulzers there. >> >> ... Martin VE3OAT >> >> On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 12:27:12 -0400 >> Bob kb8tq<kb...@n1k.org> wrote: >> >>> WWVB as transmitted ( = right at the input to the antenna) is a wonderfully >>> stable signal. As soon as >>> that signal hits the real world things start to degrade. Propagation >>> between transmit and receive sites >>> is a big deal, even at 60 KHz. On top of that, there is a*lot* of manmade >>> noise at 60 KHz. The receive >>> signal to noise will never be as good as you might like it to be ?. >> >>> I don't know about WWVB, but for DCF77 it's known that sunrise/sunset >>> causes a phase shift of several 100?s at even moderate distances >>> (like ~500km). Unfortunately I don't have any measurements at hand. >>> Attila Kinali >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
