Hi What frequency is it putting out?
Bob > On Feb 12, 2021, at 9:45 PM, paul swed <[email protected]> wrote: > > I see a glass tape on the inner oven with writing "40.0". Thats it. > Assuming C its a long way off.The flask is fine the ovens are heating to > 110F. Both of them. So somethings wrong. Interesting as I peel something > like caulking off the outer board I see what looks like a opamp. But its a > FE house number. The top of the can has NSC. The old national semiconductor > label. Could be a LM709 class opamp. > > On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 9:12 PM Bob kb8tq <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> If you are reading something below 60C on a dewar flask outer oven …. it >> is borken….. very broken. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Feb 12, 2021, at 7:25 PM, paul swed <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> The temps I am reading are with a K thermocouple so pretty accurate. I >> had >>> simply slid the thermocouple into the flask on the outer edge of the >>> ovens.The assembly is out of the flask now and both inner and outer are >>> heating. Will see what they do. Both seem to be heating at about the same >>> rate. So the great news is the oven windings are not bad. I do see a very >>> significant voltage difference on two leads that I might guess matter. >> But >>> still decoding and reverse engineering everything. >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 5:20 PM Bob kb8tq <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> According to table 1-2 in: >>>> >>>> http://www.navy-radio.com/freq/urq-eimb.pdf < >>>> http://www.navy-radio.com/freq/urq-eimb.pdf> >>>> >>>> The URQ-9 and URQ-10 both were rated for 0 to 50C. >>>> >>>> Per: >>>> >>>> http://www.navy-radio.com/freq/urq23-MIL-T-28816.pdf < >>>> http://www.navy-radio.com/freq/urq23-MIL-T-28816.pdf> >>>> >>>> The URQ-23 was rated for 0 to 50C >>>> >>>> I’d say it’s a pretty likely that the URQ-13 was rated to operate over >>>> 0 to 50C. It went into the same locations and did the same thing as the >>>> other devices. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Feb 12, 2021, at 1:07 PM, paul swed <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Well there is no doubt someone has been deep into this unit. Hint >> missing >>>>> screws internally. >>>>> But appears both heater windings are ok. >>>>> So inner and outer oven has a new meaning. I typically understood this >> to >>>>> be one oven in another oven. Think the HP CS units of old. The same in >>>>> other places HP3801. >>>>> But in the URQ13 it means there is a long tube. The Dewar flask. The >>>> inner >>>>> is deep into the flask and the outer is close to the opening. Two >>>>> completely separate heaters. Under the outer heater I will guess is the >>>>> actual oscillator for the 5 MHz. Further out from the outer heater are >>>> the >>>>> offset variable caps thermistor for the outer oven a pot and IC. >>>>> Several screws hold this outer heater on and considering the risk of >>>> taking >>>>> out the remainders to look and draw a schematic. >>>>> Regards >>>>> Paul >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 11:28 AM paul swed <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes Bob they could get hot. But the radio rooms I have been in circa >>>> 1970s >>>>>> were all air conditioned from destroyers to aircraft carriers. Shirt >>>>>> sleeve. The best place to actually be when we were down by the equator >>>> was >>>>>> the radio room, ET shop, CIC and radar and just maybe the Captain's >>>>>> stateroom. But if you were actually there you might still be sweating. >>>>>> Chuckle. >>>>>> This conversation has given me some good insights. Later today I will >>>>>> disable the outer oven. Just curious to see what possible temps might >>>> show >>>>>> up. Is the inner oven simply reading outer oven leakage. Is there a >>>> lead I >>>>>> can measure the current of the inner oven.... >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 11:18 AM Bob kb8tq <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If it’s 105F “outdoors” that’s 40C. Military gear back in the days of >>>> the >>>>>>> URQ10 >>>>>>> did not live in air conditioned enclosures. It did get deployed to >>>> places >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> temperatures at or above that level. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If it’s 40C outdoors, by the time you get to a pile of electronics >> gear >>>>>>> *indoors*, >>>>>>> a >10C rise is pretty likely. That drives a very common 50C “upper >> end” >>>>>>> temperature >>>>>>> on ground gear in relatively benign installations. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This does not just apply to military gear. If you look through test >>>>>>> equipment >>>>>>> catalogs, a lot of test gear also has the same sort of 50 to 60C >> upper >>>>>>> end spec. >>>>>>> The 5065A has a spec of 0 to 50C. The 5061A has the same spec. Both >>>>>>> targeted >>>>>>> pretty “normal” environments …. ( = they never get below freezing …) >>>> and >>>>>>> date >>>>>>> to the “era” of the URQ10. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In this era of HVAC everywhere, the 5071A has a temp range of 0 to >> 55C. >>>>>>> If >>>>>>> anything, this would suggest that things still can get pretty hot. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bob >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2021, at 10:29 AM, paul swed <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bob >>>>>>>> OK there is the math. and that all starts to line up. >>>>>>>> So most likely for other URQ units there will be an ambient max in >> the >>>>>>>> spec's. At least on the URQ10 in real life even in the hot tropics >> the >>>>>>>> radio room was shirt sleeve temps. >>>>>>>> But the question asked was 110 F correct as measured on the outside >> of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> outer oven against the dewar flask correct. It isn't. The darn thing >>>> is >>>>>>>> reasonably stable though. >>>>>>>> Since the front panel test switch is not labeled I speculate that >> the >>>>>>>> position for the outer oven is in the normal range. The next switch >>>>>>>> position most likely is inner and is not in the correct position. It >>>>>>> slowly >>>>>>>> moves to the high side. >>>>>>>> No real details on anything and a total guess. >>>>>>>> Really appreciate the thoughts. >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>>> WB8TSL >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 10:18 AM Bob kb8tq <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Indeed the outer oven (as a minimum) needs to be 5 to 10 C above >>>>>>>>> the maximum ambient. If it’s not it goes out of regulation (runs >>>> away) >>>>>>>>> and you loose any benefit from it. ( = it now works against you ). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The inner oven as a minimum needs to be 5 to 10 C above the outer >>>>>>>>> oven. Again if it is lower, you can / will get into the same >> runaway >>>>>>>>> issue. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Those offsets are dependent on the way things are insulated. If you >>>> are >>>>>>>>> using a dewar flask, 5C is probably not going to work for you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Your inner oven *also* is impacted by the turn temperature on the >>>>>>> crystal >>>>>>>>> being used. This *might* have a 20C range. That would put the >> maximum >>>>>>>>> inner oven temperature at 10 + 10 + 20 = 40C above the maximum >>>> ambient. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Needless to say, if the max ambient is 85C, this will get the inner >>>>>>> oven >>>>>>>>> components up pretty hot. That’s not a real good idea. Derating the >>>>>>> heater >>>>>>>>> is pretty easy, derating *everything* in there is much more >> complex. >>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>> do not often see 85C upper end double ovens …. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One *could* also ask: “is all this worth it?”. List members *have* >>>>>>> written >>>>>>>>> papers addressing that point :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bob >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2021, at 10:05 PM, Paul Alfille < >> [email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Shouldn't the outer oven be cooler than the inner oven except >> during >>>>>>>>>> warmup? I would think the inner electronics would be generating >>>> heat. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Paul Alfille K1PHA >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 9:30 PM paul swed <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 50C is what I have sort of seen over the years. Just wondered >> could >>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>> have been a lower temp version. That made no sense. But then this >>>>>>> beast >>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>> never made a lot of sense. The $20 mystery from Frequency >>>>>>> Electronics. >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Bob >>>>>>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>>>>>> WB8TSL >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 8:08 PM Bob kb8tq <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Even for an outer oven, anything below 60C / 140F would be low >>>>>>> enough >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> run into significant problems. On a mil device, an upper end >>>>>>>>> temperature >>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>> the equipment likely would be over 70C. The outer oven would >> need >>>>>>> to be >>>>>>>>>>>> 5 to 10C above that. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Bob >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2021, at 5:55 PM, paul swed <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> OK I have had several responses and 110F is low as I expected. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wonder if I am being faked out? Perhaps by an inner oven and I >> am >>>>>>> only >>>>>>>>>>>>> reading the outside of the outer oven. The Older URQ10 and >> newer >>>>>>> URQ23 >>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>> have 2 ovens. The meter switch for test is only labeled 1-9. no >>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>> clues >>>>>>>>>>>>> to the function. I noticed 2 positions change with warm up. >> Sort >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> supports the 2 oven theory. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Really do not want to take what might be the outer oven off to >>>> put >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> probe in. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>>>>>>>> WB8TSL >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 5:32 PM Bob kb8tq <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 110 F makes very little sense unless you are in a very cold >>>>>>> climate. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For military gear (or any gear for that matter) 43C on the >> oven >>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn’t work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 110 C would make sense in a very high temperature environment. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (think of 85C upper end ….). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bob >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2021, at 2:18 PM, paul swed <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello to the group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have had a AN/URQ-13 or FE-15a oven oscillator for years. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its never worked correctly and in reality some early alpha >>>> build. >>>>>>>>>>>> (Funny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that its labeled 15a) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking online there is no documentation that I have been >> able >>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>>>>>> over >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the years. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However in another discussion on a AN/URQ-23 that does have a >>>>>>> manual >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schematics I realized my guesses on power could be totally >>>> wrong. >>>>>>>>>>> Using >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltages like the URQ23 the URQ13 actually behaves fairly >>>> well. I >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lucky >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I didn't destroy something with my original guess. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said what I find odd is the internal crystal oven runs >> at >>>>>>>>>>> exactly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 110 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degrees. Its repeatably warms to that level with a range of >>>>>>> supply >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> +/- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12-15V. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does 110 degrees F make any sense at all? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WB8TSL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>>>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>>>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
