Hi Norman,
I was hoping for an answer that was more quantitative. We're engineers,
right? For us, the question is not so much "whether?" but "how much?",
and particularly "how much do I need for how much of an effect?".
I am especially skeptical of your assertions because you don't seem to
address at all how the frequency spectrum of the phase noise impacts the
effect. If phase noise does have an effect, I would expect to see a
strong dependency here, and Attila has hinted at the reason why this is.
Yet you mention phase noise specs very close to the carrier (so close
that any artifacts are bound to mix into the subsonic range!), which by
all educated reasoning should be the least relevant.
So, again, what "hard facts and numbers" do you have available that
would allow us to estimate how much degradation is to be expected from a
certain performance level of the oscillator, and in what application?
And, please, don't assume we're rookies here! The hint that the power
supply can be important is quite unnecessary and can very easily be
interpreted as offensive. This is not an audiophile mailing list!
Cheers
Stefan
P.S.: By the way, having brought up the topic, you could bolster your
reputation by showing how phase noise relates to bit error rate
(quantitatively!).
Am 10.01.2022 um 18:07 schrieb Norman Reitz via time-nuts:
Hi Stefan,
Bernd said it allready. If you once notice the result of a "better" clock with lower
phase noise, you dont want to miss it anymore. Even if there is a lot of vodoo and pseudo-sciences
in the audio sector - and audio-nuts can talk hours about things no scientist ever heard about.
But the improvement of phase noise is not an imagination. We are not talking about making something
just "work".
In worst case, phase noise can lead to bit errors. better/lower phase noise
clocks will produce a better musical flow, better dynamics, better
representation of details and details that were notbeeing noticed before. And
don't forget - the quality of the power supply is not entirely unimportant ;-)
kind regards
Norman
Am Montag, 10. Januar 2022, 15:52:59 MEZ hat Stefan Heinzmann
<[email protected]> Folgendes geschrieben:
I'm curious, too, what kind of audio application requires this level of
phase noise performance, and why.
Cheers
Stefan
Am 10.01.2022 um 12:35 schrieb Attila Kinali:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 08:26:26 +0000 (UTC)
Norman Reitz via time-nuts <[email protected]> wrote:
I am looking for suppliers of high-quality OCXO in 10 Mhz (sine / square) and
25 Mhz sine wave output.
Try contacting Bernd Neubig at Axtal. He is a fellow time-nut and likely to be
open to supply you with what you need.
That said, are yo sure you need such stringend phase noise requirements?
It's audio. Nobody is going to hear whether the noise is -60dBc or -80dBc @ 1Hz,
much less -120dBc. As you have noticed, what you want is not readily available.
There are only a handful OCXO available that reach that level. One of them is
the famous Oscilloquartz 8607 and its successor the Rakon HSO13/HSO14. But be
prepared
to pay the price of a small car for each of them. And there is the NEL ULPN
OCXO 1714a,
but I don't know how much that one costs.
Attila Kinali
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