Hi

The real answer to the problem is to dig into the bowels of 1940’s electronic 
craft.
There are various methods for setting up an L/C filter. You short this / open 
that sweep
to find a dip or a peak. You move it to the “right” place. Just what you do 
depends
very much on the filter design. Many L/C’s got done this way or that way simply
because they would fit a known alignment method.

While it all sounds very cumbersome and obscure it actually isn’t. Long ago I 
stumbled
upon a gal setting up very complex L/C IF filters this way. The display gyrated 
this way
and that way as she did this or that. I don’t think it took her more than a 
minute to get 
the whole thing set up….. to this day, I’m amazed by how fast she was.

Do I have any useful links to actually read up on  this magic? … sorry about 
that.

Bob

> On May 26, 2022, at 4:58 AM, Lux, Jim via time-nuts 
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> On 5/25/22 3:16 PM, ed breya via time-nuts wrote:
>> Thanks Mike, for info on LCR alternatives. It's good to know of others out 
>> there, if needed. I have an HP4276A and HP4271A. The 4276A is the main 
>> workhorse for all part checking, since it has a wide range of LCZ, although 
>> limited frequency coverage (100 Hz - 20 kHz). The 4271A is 1 MHz only, and 
>> good for smaller and RF parts, but very limited upper LCR ranges. I think it 
>> works, so I can use it if needed, but would have to check it out and build 
>> an official lead set for it. I recall working on it a few years ago to fix 
>> some flakiness in the controls, so not 100% sure of its present condition.
>> 
>> The main difficulty I've found in measuring small chokes is more of 
>> probing/connection problem rather than instrument limitation. For most 
>> things, I use a ground reference converter that I built for the 4276A many 
>> years ago. It allows ground-referenced measurements, so the DUT doesn't have 
>> to float inside the measuring bridge. The four-wire arrangement is extended 
>> (in modified form) all the way to a small alligator clip ground, and a probe 
>> tip, for DUT connection, so there is some residual L in the clip and the 
>> probe tip, which causes some variable error, especially in attaching to very 
>> small parts and leads. When you add in the variable contact resistance too, 
>> it gets worse. Imagine holding a small RF can (about a 1/2 inch cube) 
>> between your fingers, with a little clip sort of hanging from one lead, and 
>> pressing the end of the probe tip against the other lead. All the while, 
>> there's the variable contact forces, and effects from the relative positions 
>> of all the pieces and fingers, and the stray C from the coil to the can to 
>> the fingers. I have pretty good dexterity, and have managed to make these 
>> measurements holding all this stuff in one hand, while tweaking the tuning 
>> slug with the other.
>> 
>> I had planned on making other accessories like another clip lead to go in 
>> place of the probe tip, but not yet built. I also have the official 
>> Kelvin-style lead set that came with the unit, so that's an option that 
>> would provide much better accuracy and consistency, but the clips are fairly 
>> large and hard to fit in tight situations, and the DUT must float. Anyway, I 
>> can make all sorts of improvements in holding parts and hookup, but usually 
>> I just clip and poke and try to get close enough - especially when I have to 
>> check a lot of parts, quickly.
>> 
>> The other problem is that the 4276A is near its limit for getting 
>> measurements below 1 uH, with only two digits left for nH. The 4271A would 
>> be much better for this, with 1 nH vs 10 nH resolution.
>> 
>> If I get in a situation where I need to do a lot of this (if I should get 
>> filter madness, for instance), then I'll have to improve the tools and 
>> methods, but I'm OK for now, having slogged through it this time. 
> 
> 
> You might check out the NanoVNA - people have made a variety of novel 
> fixtures for measuring small parts (i.e. 0604 SMTs)
> 
> It certainly has the measurement frequency range you need. The trick is 
> figuring out whether you want to do a series or shunt measurement, and that 
> sort of depends on the reactance of your device at the frequency of interest.
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