Hi

That’s one of the methods. There are others for various filter topologies. Some 
are
more practical than others …

Bob

> On May 26, 2022, at 9:27 AM, John Lofgren <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
> Bob,
> 
> You may be thinking of Dishal's method.
> < 
> https://www.johansontechnology.com/dishal-bandpass-filter-tuning-using-lasertrim-chip-caps>
> 
> -John
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob kb8tq via time-nuts <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 10:18 AM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
> <[email protected]>
> Cc: Bob kb8tq <[email protected]>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: measuring tiny devices
> 
> EXTERNAL EMAIL: Be careful with attachments and links.
> 
> Hi
> 
> The real answer to the problem is to dig into the bowels of 1940’s electronic 
> craft.
> There are various methods for setting up an L/C filter. You short this / open 
> that sweep to find a dip or a peak. You move it to the “right” place. Just 
> what you do depends very much on the filter design. Many L/C’s got done this 
> way or that way simply because they would fit a known alignment method.
> 
> While it all sounds very cumbersome and obscure it actually isn’t. Long ago I 
> stumbled upon a gal setting up very complex L/C IF filters this way. The 
> display gyrated this way and that way as she did this or that. I don’t think 
> it took her more than a minute to get the whole thing set up….. to this day, 
> I’m amazed by how fast she was.
> 
> Do I have any useful links to actually read up on  this magic? … sorry about 
> that.
> 
> Bob
> 
>> On May 26, 2022, at 4:58 AM, Lux, Jim via time-nuts 
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> On 5/25/22 3:16 PM, ed breya via time-nuts wrote:
>>> Thanks Mike, for info on LCR alternatives. It's good to know of others out 
>>> there, if needed. I have an HP4276A and HP4271A. The 4276A is the main 
>>> workhorse for all part checking, since it has a wide range of LCZ, although 
>>> limited frequency coverage (100 Hz - 20 kHz). The 4271A is 1 MHz only, and 
>>> good for smaller and RF parts, but very limited upper LCR ranges. I think 
>>> it works, so I can use it if needed, but would have to check it out and 
>>> build an official lead set for it. I recall working on it a few years ago 
>>> to fix some flakiness in the controls, so not 100% sure of its present 
>>> condition.
>>> 
>>> The main difficulty I've found in measuring small chokes is more of 
>>> probing/connection problem rather than instrument limitation. For most 
>>> things, I use a ground reference converter that I built for the 4276A many 
>>> years ago. It allows ground-referenced measurements, so the DUT doesn't 
>>> have to float inside the measuring bridge. The four-wire arrangement is 
>>> extended (in modified form) all the way to a small alligator clip ground, 
>>> and a probe tip, for DUT connection, so there is some residual L in the 
>>> clip and the probe tip, which causes some variable error, especially in 
>>> attaching to very small parts and leads. When you add in the variable 
>>> contact resistance too, it gets worse. Imagine holding a small RF can 
>>> (about a 1/2 inch cube) between your fingers, with a little clip sort of 
>>> hanging from one lead, and pressing the end of the probe tip against the 
>>> other lead. All the while, there's the variable contact forces, and effects 
>>> from the relative positions of all the pieces and fingers, and the stray C 
>>> from the coil to the can to the fingers. I have pretty good dexterity, and 
>>> have managed to make these measurements holding all this stuff in one hand, 
>>> while tweaking the tuning slug with the other.
>>> 
>>> I had planned on making other accessories like another clip lead to go in 
>>> place of the probe tip, but not yet built. I also have the official 
>>> Kelvin-style lead set that came with the unit, so that's an option that 
>>> would provide much better accuracy and consistency, but the clips are 
>>> fairly large and hard to fit in tight situations, and the DUT must float. 
>>> Anyway, I can make all sorts of improvements in holding parts and hookup, 
>>> but usually I just clip and poke and try to get close enough - especially 
>>> when I have to check a lot of parts, quickly.
>>> 
>>> The other problem is that the 4276A is near its limit for getting 
>>> measurements below 1 uH, with only two digits left for nH. The 4271A would 
>>> be much better for this, with 1 nH vs 10 nH resolution.
>>> 
>>> If I get in a situation where I need to do a lot of this (if I should get 
>>> filter madness, for instance), then I'll have to improve the tools and 
>>> methods, but I'm OK for now, having slogged through it this time.
>> 
>> 
>> You might check out the NanoVNA - people have made a variety of novel
>> fixtures for measuring small parts (i.e. 0604 SMTs)
>> 
>> It certainly has the measurement frequency range you need. The trick is 
>> figuring out whether you want to do a series or shunt measurement, and that 
>> sort of depends on the reactance of your device at the frequency of interest.
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send
>> an email to [email protected]
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an 
> email to [email protected]
> THIS MESSAGE, ANY ATTACHMENT(S), AND THE INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN MAY BE 
> PROPRIETARY TO LAIRD CONNECTIVITY, LLC. AND/OR ANOTHER PARTY, AND MAY FURTHER 
> BE INTENDED TO BE KEPT CONFIDENTIAL. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, 
> PLEASE DELETE THE EMAIL AND ANY ATTACHMENTS, AND IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY THE 
> SENDER BY RETURN EMAIL. THIS MESSAGE AND ITS CONTENTS ARE THE PROPERTY OF 
> LAIRD CONNECTIVITY, LLC. AND MAY NOT BE REPRODUCED OR USED WITHOUT THE 
> EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF LAIRD CONNECTIVITY, LLC.
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected]
To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]

Reply via email to