Hi Jim- I think that , in the main, we agree pretty well. Neither of us wants to embarrass students and we both prefer to use subtler approaches at the outset. Where we diverge is over the question of what to do with the repeat offenders who are oblivious to all requests & continue to disrupt the learning of those who sit around them (not to mention the concentration of the prof). You are quite right that embarrassing students is (or should be) a punishment and I intend it to be such. When you ask, "Isn't the literature generally (not universally) skeptical about its efficacy?" I would say no, it is not. Punishment is clearly effective in altering behaviour and severe punishment can easily produce life long behaviour change after only one trial. Solomon's work on shuttle-box avoidance and Garcia's work on Taste-Aversion learning come to mind as exemplars. The usual concern about punishment has to do with its mis-use by amateurs (e.g. parents) who often set up escape or avoidance paradigms when they think that they are punishing, or introduce habituation (starting low & then going to high). The other problem is that punishment will probably produce a Conditioned Emotional Response (CER). In that case the students in question may stop talking, but may also stop attending classes altogether. All of these are legitimate concerns & I would be the first to caution against the use of punishment as a primary response to inappropriate behaviour. However, in the case of repeated inappropriate behaviour which does not respond to gentler approaches I am willing to apply punishment. My concern for the possible negative effects on the talkers is outweighed by my concern for the students who are the proximate victims of their rude behaviour.
Re point # 4: I certainly don't teach at an "ethnically pure" school. Langara is about as ethnically and (more important) culturally diverse campus as you can find anywhere in the world. I really appreciate this diversity as it brings dozens of new perspectives into the classroom. However, I think it would be a mistake to try to tailor my approach based on a person's cultural background. This could end up with ignoring disruptive behaviour from one student (hey, in their culture it's the norm!) while chastising it when presented by another. I think that just as faculty going to teach abroad should learn and adapt as much as possible about the cultural mores of their new location students from other cultures should do the same. Have a great weekend! -Don. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 5:09 AM Subject: Re: Class noise > Hi > > On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, don allen wrote: > > > Maybe I'm getting too old & crusty for this job, > > I'm no youngster myself! > > > but I'm not sure that I understand the rationale of "Don't > > embarrass talkers". These people are being rude and > > disruptive. There isn't one of them who doesn't know that it > > is impolite and an infringement on the other students. Why > > shouldn't they be embarrassed about their egregious > > behaviour? While I always try to deal with such individuals > > in a low key manner at first I have no hesitation in ejecting > > repeat offenders from a class. In every case where I've had > > to do this the students later came to my office, apologized, > > and behaved appropriately for the rest of the term. Is there > > any data to support the "no-embarrassment" approach or is > > this just a mantra from the warm&fuzzy crowd? > > We're probably much alike, starting with the softer > methods. Except for the ADHD student I mentioned in another > posting, I've never had to go beyond talking to students just > before or just after class, usually making the point that I find > it distracting and difficult to concentrate. I'm sure I have it > in me to embarass students, although I try to save that for > University Administrators. > > I do think that it would have to be done carefully, which you > seem to have mastered (e.g., perhaps with a little humor). > Otherwise, it might come across as hostile or an over-reaction. > > As for evidence, I'll start with an anecdote and move on from > there. > > 1. I remember an all-boys grade 9 class I was in. The class > discovered that they could "get to" the teacher and drove her to > tears and to quit before the year was over. They stopped the > practice of all-boys classes the next year. Again we do hope for > better from university students, but if one is in essence > starting down a possible road of intimidation, then it would be > important to assess how big a stick you're willing to yield and > how big a stick it would take. > > 2. Would not embarassment (not done in good humor) fall into the > category of punishment? Isn't the literature generally (not > universally) skeptical about its efficacy? > > 3. I earlier mentioned classroom studies with kids showing that a > soft reprimand was effective and a loud reprimand actually > increased the frequency of the undesired behaviour. My search of > psychinfo for similar research with university students did not > turn up anything. Of course, it did not turn up anything to > support the efficacy of embarassing students either, or > comparisons between that and gentler approaches. > > 4. Finally, I do think that the issue of "saving face" is much > more general than Hawaii and surely would apply to large numbers > of students in our classes (unless you are in some ethnically > pure area of North American or an ethnically pure institution). > My classrooms in Canada nowadays are pretty much as international > as you can get ... whites from diverse cultural groups, > Aboriginals (the preferred term in Canada, I think), Japanese, > Chinese, Philipino, middle-eastern nationalities, both North > American and African blacks, Central and South America, ... > > 5. I don't like to embarass students if it isn't > necessary. Perhaps this comes from too many years teaching > statistics, but I find that if I want students to speak up > in such classes then I have to respond very gently no matter how > _____ (substitute some more polite phrase for "idiotic") the > comments or questions. > > Best wishes > Jim > > ============================================================================ > James M. Clark (204) 786-9757 > Department of Psychology (204) 774-4134 Fax > University of Winnipeg 4L05D > Winnipeg, Manitoba R3B 2E9 [EMAIL PROTECTED] > CANADA http://www.uwinnipeg.ca/~clark > ============================================================================ > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
