Louis If your reread my post, I did not say you should stop participating in this list. What I said was that if you were unwilling to have a public dialog about our criticisms of your posts then you probably should not post to a public list.
The assumption I make when asking a question, responding to another or engaging in a discussion on this list is that everyone participating in TIPS are knowledgeable and concerned educators and (with one known exception) are educated in psychology. I also realize that each of us, at least those who have been teaching for a while, has a pedagogy that we have found successful or we are searching to improve our teaching style. What works for one educator may not work for another. I participate on the list to see how others approach the same problems I may have. Just because I may not see the merits of a particular approach is not justification to conclude that that method is not effective. The fact that we are members of this list is an indication that we all take pride in our struggle to be better teachers. I made the point about the members of the list being educated in psychology because that education plays a very important part in how we (psychologists) view the world. Although some may have a different perspective, the majority of us have been educated in traditional psychology programs that provide a framework for how we acquire knowledge about the world. This differentiates us from historians. We are scientists (not social scientists), and there are specific methods we use that allow us to draw conclusions and make predictions. A single case study may be interesting, may provide the basis for additional research, and may be a reflection of a generalizable human behavior. But, in and of itself it will not allow us (psychologists) to draw a generalizable conclusion. That is why many participants of this list bristle when you make broad brushed conclusions based on a conversation you have had with a former, or current student. Again, I am not saying those conclusions are incorrect, they are premature. The foundation to our approach to understanding of the world will not allow us to draw those conclusions. And that is what we use as the basis for our pedagogy. We can't separate out the content of what we teach from our teaching. This isn't nitpicking. This is psychology. >From my perspective, and I think I am approaching this objectively, there appears to be the proverbial breakdown in communication between you and a significant number of others on this list. You keep telling us that we are misreading you unable to reflect on ourselves). When a single student complains that an exam was too difficult I assume that it was most likely a function of the student' level of understanding. When many students complain then I take a step backwards and look at what I am doing. Despite the numerous statements from list members that we find many of your posts degrading you deflect those comments back at us and say we can't take the criticism or are misreading you. I do not see them as displacing our own shortcomings. Louis, I am not the only one pointing this out, in fact I have rarely responded to your posts. For example when I responded to the request for how to deal with the visually disabled student by pointing out the law was for reasonable accommodation, your response was that people use reasonable accommodation as a way of "wiggling out" of their responsibility. You didn't indicate that it was your experience at your school or we should be careful because there is a potential. You made a general pronouncement. I found that offensive because I have adhered to that approach and have provided very effective accommodations to my students. I am not wiggling out of my responsibility to them. If you step back and look at the generalizations you are making you might understand why we are responding to your posts this way. We are big boys and girls and have thick skin as well. I can take criticism. I don't however like being criticized for something you assume about me. This isn't nitpicking. One of the problems with email is the fact that we become too spontaneous. There are advantages as well as disadvantages. Maybe you should spend some time rereading what you are posting. Some of the responses to you have been personal attacks and I find that regrettable. However, from my perspective, those attacks come from a frustration with your inability to take our criticisms seriously. Again, there is no place for personal attacks in this public forum. Hopefully we will all learn from this exchange. Gary Gary J. Klatsky, Ph. D. Department of Psychology [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oswego State University (SUNY) http://www.oswego.edu/~klatsky 7060 State Hwy 104W Voice: (315) 312-3474 Oswego, NY 13126 Fax: (315) 312-6330 All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field. Albert Einstein -----Original Message----- From: Louis_Schmier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 9:12 AM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences Subject: Not Sure What to Call This Message Gary, I have to admit I'm nervous about sending this response to your request to go public with all my responses. I guess I'm edgy that all I will be doing is providing what some will crack into gasoline to pour onto their fire. Being nervous is okay; letting my nervousness control me is not. I tell that constantly to the students; I cannot do otherwise. So, you want me to go public with my comments. Fine. Here goes. I freely admit that often I am saddened and often I am stunned when well-intentioned and well-educated people make personal accusations on my character and motives while ignoring the questions I ask and issues I raise that associated with pedagogy specifically and education in general. I know there is a diverse population on this list. I know each of us is not above human fraility. I know I cannot please everyone and be the person each of you may want me to be, do what you may want me to do, say what you may want me to say. This is a discussion list on Teaching in Psychology. Many of you prefer to focus on the psychology aspect of this list. Many of you, as do I, prefer to focus on the teaching aspect of this list. I am an accompished historian by training and achievements and reputation. I take pride that I am struggling to be a teacher in every sense of the word. I cannot hope to engage on any equal footing in any discussion on the subject of psychology, although as any student I reserve the right to ask questions. I can engage in discussions on educational philosophy, in and out of classroom experiences, teaching methods and techniques, student involvement in learning, and my intertwined personal and professional self. I know I do not know who each of you are as some of you think you know all about me. If anyone wants to know anything about me, as I tell the students on the first day of class, ask away--respectfully. What do you want to know about me; I have nothing to hide. It is a mistake to be someone other than myself, although "myself" is more of a term of on-going developing process than stasis. It is equally a mistake to think I can please everyone. It is a mistake to think everyone will agree with my views. It is still another mistake to think that everyone will read every word closely. And, it is still yet another mistake to write to each of you rather than write from myself. It can be discouraging when decent, informed, sincere people will take offense and be offensive by well-intentioned reflections, sharing of experiences, celebration of student potential and achievements, comemoration of learning, sharing of educational philosophies. I am willing to run that risk. I think an on-going discussion on teaching, learning, purpose, and philosophy are that important. At times, I can be sloppy stylistically. I write in a state of spontaneity. Sometimes, my fingers go faster than my mind. I don't tweek, rewrite, for fear of the presence of my lurking demon who had for too long controlled me: "contrivance." There are times I may carelessly paint too broad of a brush and inadvently omit a qualifying "many" or "too few" or "some," leaving such modifiers to inference rather than clumsily and awkwardly inserting them every time. I can be too quick to hit the "send" key and forgot first to hit the spell check key or omit a word or two here and there. I would hope after all this time many of you would understand, but if some of you want to avoid the issue and nitpick on style, that, too, I am willing to risk. I am a big boy; I have a thick skin. After over a decade of self-reflection and transformation, I don't have the fragile ego as some of you assert. If I did, I would have retreated into the shadows of lurking long ago. Of course, we each are accountable for what we say and do. We each should be respectful of others' feelings. Disagree as we may, I have never flamed anyone as some have me; I have never gotten personal and engaged in attempted character asassination in my exchange as some of you have; I have never challenged your integrity as some of you have challenged mine; I have never acted in malice towards anyone as some have acted toward me; I have never thrown accusations of egotistical, self-infaturated, self-inflated, self-promoting as any of you as some of you have at me; I have not called anyone immature as some have me; I have not hurled such derivisive terms as "touchy feely" or "New Ager"--whatever they may mean--at anyone as some have me; I have not called anyone's ideas idiotic as some have labelled mine; I have not challenged anyone's veracity and integrity as some of you have mine. And, the record will show that if ever I have stepped over the line publically, I have made public apology. To be sure, over the years, I have raised at times hard issues, asked uncomforable questions, have taken unpopular positions, have challenged prevailing attitudes and actions. I always hope we can have an open minded, probing exchange according to the rule that we are permitted to collegially and cordially and respectflly agree to disagree. That does not always happen with some. I am will to risk that. We each are accountable for and must take ownership of our own interpretation of and action on other people's motives or words. When I act in good faith and without malice, as I have always done without exception, I am simply not responsible for the way any one else feels. If what I say has any worth, I must draw from and speak about my personal and professional experiences, investigations, growths, changes, attitudes, outlooks, insights, perspectives, and reflections. I do not believe that anyone of us is capable of non-human objectivity. Try as we each may, we cannot divorce ourselves from ourselves. To paraphrase Jon Katbat-Zinn, wherever I go, whatever I say, whatever I think, feel, and do, there I am. So, like it or not, you will be hearing more from me on all and any aspects of teaching and education, working without a net. This is my last word on this matter. Make it a good day. --Louis-- Louis Schmier www.therandomthoughts.com Department of History www.halcyon.com/arborhts/louis.html Valdosta State University Valdosta, Georgia 31698 /~\ /\ /\ (229-333-5947) /^\ / \ / /~ \ /~\__/\ / \__/ \/ / /\ /~ \ /\/\-/ /^\___\______\_______/__/_______/^\ -_~ / "If you want to climb mountains, \ /^\ _ _ / don't practice on mole hills" -\____ --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
