The problem with being focused on advancing industry interests, making money, and acquiring power, is that these concerns often conflict with scientific integrity and the value of an enterprise.
I certainly want to make money--I have a wife and two small children to support. But if my *primary* concern were this, I might be lined upon Oprah to hawk a book about my experience of recovered memory of childhood sexual abuse or some such. It should be no news that in a market-based economy the drive to make money and acquire power frequently conflicts with excellence in science and the arts. Ask any jazz musician anywhere in the industrialized world. Paul Okami ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wallace E. Dixon, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 5:06 PM Subject: Re: APA President-elect > I am surprised that Paul speaks of making money and acquiring power as if it > were a bad thing for a scientific society. I can't think of anything better > to advocate for the science of psychology than an organization that makes > money and acquires power, AND uses both in the service of advocating > nationally and internationally for psychological science. > > Now, we may argue whether APA IS that organization, or whether we would be > better served by a different organization. But regardless, for any such > organization to wield any influence at all, it is going to have to have > money and power. > > I recognize that not all psychologists believe psychology should have a > formal, science-agenda-pushing national presence, but for those of us who > do, we will need to have money and power. > > Wally Dixon > > > On 12/4/04 2:27 PM, "Paul Okami" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Patricia > > > > It is not that the APA does not offer useful services. It is that the APA > > represents the degradation of the science of psychology, its transformation > > from a profession to an industry, and its furtherance of highly destructive > > social trends (e.g., the "psychologizing" of society). > > > > The useful services offered by the APA could occur in the context of a > > professional society devoted to advancing the scientific aspects of > > psychology (including science-based clinical psychology), rather than a > > lobby group for an industry devoted to making money and acquiring power. > > > > regards, > > Paul > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Patricia Spiegel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:34 AM > > Subject: Re: APA President-elect > > > > > >> Yes Paul, I re-read your comment, and you are correct about not > > criticizing > >> Dr. Koocher. It was the same thread, and your statement of mass > >> resignations from APA was in that context. That is what got to me. To > >> quote: "If everyone lets their membership to the APA lapse in protest, > >> maybe something will happen, but given that the APA is actually an > > industry > >> guild rather than a professional society, it is doubtful." > >> > >> Let me ask you something about that. What would we teaching psychologists > >> do without the journals and the expansive data bases maintained by APA? > > APA > >> keeps our discipline's history fully intact, keeps us up with what is > > going > >> on now, and assures that future work in the field will be readily > > available > >> to us all. I think about that every time I pay my dues, and--recognizing > >> that no other organization or publisher fills or would be able or willing > > to > >> fill that void should APA become weak--make out that check quite > > willingly. > >> > >> RE: your criticisms of my comments, I believe I answered them. > >> > >> Patricia Keith-Spiegel > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Paul Okami" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 3:48 PM > >> Subject: Re: APA President-elect > >> > >> > >>> As I said, I know absolutely nothing about the man as was not > > criticizing > >>> him. For all I know, he is a saint. I was concerned about the premises > >>> used to defend him against certain types of criticisms. My points were > >>> directed toward Patricia's comments, not toward Dr. Koocher. > >>> > >>> Paul > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Patricia Spiegel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 5:35 PM > >>> Subject: Re: APA President-elect > >>> > >>> > >>>> Thanks, Stephen. I am glad you said it the way you did, because you > >>>> don't > >>>> really know Gerry, and yet he does stop to help anyone who he thinks is > >>>> being treated unfairly. > >>>> Paul O, are you on board to hear from the "target" himself? > >>>> Tricia > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Stephen Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>> To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:15 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: APA President-elect > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On 3 Dec 2004, Patricia Spiegel wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Tell you what. If the two Paul's and Stephen will > >>>>>> give their permission, I will forward this thread to Koocher himself > >>> and > >>>>>> let > >>>>>> him respond to your concerns. I look forward to hearing from the 3 > > of > >>>>>> you. > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I have to admit that after writing my note concerning my dismay at > >>>>> Dr. Koocher's apparent support for false memory therapy, pushing the > >>>>> send key was one of the hardest things I've had to do on TIPS. I did > >>>>> appreciate the help he gave me, and that note seemed like a poor way > >>>>> to thank him. So I also have to admit that I was hoping that he > >>>>> wouldn't find out about it. > >>>>> > >>>>> But (as I've been warning people), our posts are readily available to > >>>>> anyone who knows how to google. And, in any case, he deserves the > >>>>> opportunity to respond, although I imagine a president-elect likely > >>>>> has other more pressing matters to concern himself with at the > >>>>> moment. > >>>>> > >>>>> So my answer is yes, I give permission, and I look forward to his > >>>>> response. > >>>>> > >>>>> Stephen > >>>>> > >>>>> ___________________________________________________ > >>>>> Stephen L. Black, Ph.D. tel: (819) 822-9600 ext 2470 > >>>>> Department of Psychology fax: (819) 822-9661 > >>>>> Bishop's University e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> Lennoxville, QC J1M 1Z7 > >>>>> Canada > >>>>> > >>>>> Dept web page at http://www.ubishops.ca/ccc/div/soc/psy > >>>>> TIPS discussion list for psychology teachers at > >>>>> http://faculty.frostburg.edu/psyc/southerly/tips/index.htm > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> --- > >>>>> You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> --- > >>>> You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- > >>> You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> --- > >> You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > > > > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
