Michael's effect sizes are way off because he starts with a greatly
inflated assumption of the probability of the first son being gay.
According to Myers' (2005) explanation of this phenomenon in Exploring
Psychology (6th ed.). "Assuming the odds of homosexuality are roughly 3
percent among first sons, they rise to about 4 percent among second
sons, 5 percent for third sons and so on for each additional older
brother." (p. 366) It is unclear to me if the increase is actually
steady (based on the original base rate of 3%) or if it increases (3%
for the second son, 4% for the third son and 4% plus one-third of 4% for
the fourth son and so on). Up through 3 sons, it wouldn't make a
difference but by the 10th son, it would be the difference between 11%
and 32%. Of course, given the relatively small number of sons born to
the great majority of women, it wouldn't make much difference.

One more point: I think that there is a paucity of research in this area
not because it is not politically correct per se but because neither
side in the political debate really wants to know the cause of sexual
orientation. Some are happy with a vague notion of biology causing it
because that becomes matched in most people's minds with the concept
that it is immutable and works to their political ends. (Of course,
biological and even genetic causes are not immutable.) However, they
have no desire to find the actual origin of sexual orientation due to
the fact that locating a biological cause is a precursor to "curing" or
preventing the birth of people of an unpopular orientation. On the other
side, it should be obvious that the groups who believe that
homosexuality is a choice aren't going to be looking for a biological
cause. The funny thing is that people who believe in choice somehow
think that an environmental explanation is more in line with choice than
a biological cause. Both are causal explanations that do not involve
choice and can, theoretically, be altered.

I am not yet ready to throw over the whole concept of interactivity
between biology and environment to the dominance of either side
concerning any complex human behavior. Most have elements of both
biology and environment in complex interaction and I haven't seen any
evidence to suggest that sexual orientation will not be found to have a
similarly complex etiology. Studies that provide evidence of genetic
influence also provide evidence of environmental influences (as yet
unidentified). One possible interactive explanation is Bem's theory (as
described by Myers, 2005), "Perhaps...genes code for prenatal hormones
and brain anatomy, which predispose temperaments that lead children to
prefer gender-typical or gender-atypical activities and friends. These
preferences may later lead children to feel attracted to whichever sex
feels different from their own. The dissimilar-seeming sex (whether or
not it conforms to ones own anatomy) becomes associated with anxiety and
other forms of arousal, which eventually gets transformed into romantic
arousal." (pp. 367-368). This would certainly seem to fit with the
anecdotes provided in the 60 minutes program. What I would like to see
is some cross-cultural evidence of the development of sexual orientation
in cultures where gender roles and expectations diverge from our own
culture. 



Rick

Dr. Rick Froman
Psychology Department
Box 3055
x7295
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  

Proverbs 14:15 "A simple man believes anything, but a prudent man gives
thought to his steps." 


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 10:14 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences
Subject: Re: Womb memory and gay behavior

On 15 Mar 2006 at 13:12, michael sylvester wrote:

> According to recent research,a person's chances of being gay is a
> function of the amount of older brothers one has.So a guy with one
> older brother has a 20% chance,two older brothers 40%, and three older
> brothers 60% chance.Apparently after the conception of the first
> boy,the womb maintains a memory.And is directed towards producing a
> female,but if another male is born, feminizing factors interact to
> produce gay behavior. 

I don't understand what all the fuss is about. The fraternal birth order

effect is a solid, well-established finding. As I mentioned in one of my

recent posts (and as Dennis Goff also pointed out), the reseach was 
discussed on that _60 Minutes_ programme. However, while Dennis cited
the 
work of Anthony Bogaert, I mentioned Ray Blanchard. Actually both should

be credited as co-authors.

Michael's figures don't seem too far off. Blanchard and Bogaert (1996) 
say that each additional older brother increases the odds of 
homosexuality by 33%. And "womb memory", as I understand it, is pretty 
much what B & B are arguing, although what is remembered, they 
hypothesize, is an immune reaction against male antigens. 

Also, while Blanchard was at the Clarke Institute of Psychiatry when 
first reporting on this, as I said in my previous post, it seems it's
now 
called the CAMH (Centre for Addiction and Mental Health) after some 
complicated mergers of institutions. It's affiliated with the University

of Toronto.

I'm just disappointed we haven't heard from Paul Okami on the topic, as 
he's undoubtedly the most qualified on the subject on this list.

Stephen

Blanchard R, Bogaert AF (1996).         Homosexuality in men and number
of 
older brothers. Am J Psychiatry, 153(1):27-31.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen L. Black, Ph.D.          
Department of Psychology     
Bishop's University                e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Lennoxville, QC J1M 1Z7
Canada

Dept web page at http://www.ubishops.ca/ccc/div/soc/psy
TIPS discussion list for psychology teachers at
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