I should have explained myself better. Finals, term papers to read,
etc. and I speak in abbreviated, can't you read my mind? language....
I also NEVER give extra credit. I always tell students in my syllabus
they have plenty to master so that they don't need nor do they really
want anything 'extra'.
I meant that I will let students repeat work they fail to master to
whatever standard they want to meet on the first go around. It is
never for full credit if they have to repeat work but I would rather
have them have a second go around than graduate with what little they
got out of the first go around. In that sense I want them to 'master'
the work, rather than just 'perform' for a grade. I find that it
doesn't matter at all at which level they completed their work the
first time. Even students with an A on a test will ask to repeat
whatever item or two they failed to understand. And the lower scoring
students are equally likely to come in and want to rework whatever
performance task was not to their satisfaction.
Most of the students come in my office say things like, "This is my
major, I really need to get this", or "I'm going on in psych, I really
need to know this information" and in that sense I was saying that
they are willing to expend large amounts of effort.
Now it could well be that they have learned the right things to say to
me other than "I really need a better grade in this class if I am
going to get into graduate school" But I don't care. As long as they
are willing to do the extra effort it takes to really understand, and
show me they understand the material, then I am willing to work with
them to reach that goal. Usually the extra work really is more
effortful than the original work because at that point I figure the
usual methods didn't work for them. Many of our current cohort of
soph, jr, sr are willing to do the extra work to really achieve
mastery. Too soon to tell what this year's freshmen will be like; but
if my son's friends, who are the cohort of this fall's incoming
freshmen are any indication they should also be hard workers. (I don't
use my son as a measure--when they told him he'd have to maintain a
2.0 gpa to play varsity sports he took it literally....:(
As I said before, I think that living in a competitive environment in
southern california has a lot to do with their attitudes. They know
they are up against strong odds if they want to stay close to home in
their careers. The job, housing markets are very tight here. The cost
of living is exhorbitant compared to other parts of the country. My
brother just bought an average 2 bedroom condo for over $600,000! New
housing in tracts starts about that price for the smallest possible
units. And forget downtown San Diego unless you really have some bucks
behind you. 500 sq.ft condos start around half a mil. I'm talking
about students who have to pay close to $1500 rent for a 1-bedroom
apartment to share, plus utilities, etc. They know right off the bat
that they are up against a tough future.
When I think back on my college days, this is a whole different world!
Annette
Quoting Gerald Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Hi Annette: Extra work? Why can't they achieve mastery without
extra work? Or perhaps this is like extra credit? My students DO
indeed have such expectations. When they don't do well, they want
extra credit thinking this will make up for the deficiencies more
objectively shown with regular exams. If this extra credit work
demands real proficiency, and the previous exams indicate they do
not yet have this proficiency, doing more work hardly seems
worthwhile. I do give them exercises and steps to take to increase
their learning, but the ones who need this "extra work: seldom
undertake it. Extra work to really achieve mastery? Now that
would be a joy. Gary
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 5/16/2006 6:45 pm >>>
NOT typical of my students. I find that our students, maybe because
they are in California and it's a very competitive job market and high
cost of living around here, are MORE likely to do as much as they can
to maximize their grades. They are willing to do inordinate amounts of
extra work to earn a higher mastery grade. The majority are far more
likely to get by on grit and willpower to make up for what they might
lack in intellectual ability and I was thinking that was troublesome.
But maybe I'd better shut up and be happy I have students willing to
bust their buns for mastery.
Annette
Quoting Paul Brandon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
I've noted over the past few years that more students in my
Introductory Behavior Analysis course are settling for B's - not even
attempting to get an A.
Since I use a unit/mastery system this can be quantified:
The most common (generally easiest) way to get a grade of B is to
complete all eleven test units and three (out of six) projects.
Therefore, handing in a report on the fourth project is a good proxy
for attempting an A.
When I started teaching this way 35 years ago the model course grade was A.
Over the past decade or so the mode has shifted down to B.
This does NOT seem to be due to a poorer level of student performance;
they do just as well on the work that they attempt -- they just don't
attempt as much.
I've attached a graph of the number of students handing in a report on
the fourth course project over the past five years (I'm not sure if
this listserv will allow attachments, so it's also available on my Web
site at http://krypton.mnsu.edu/~pkbrando/AttemptingA.pdf).
You can see that the number of students attempting an A has gone down
from about 18 (section size is about 25) five years ago to 7 this
semester. There's the variability one would expect from this sample
size, but the trend seems compelling.
The text, Lab Manual and course requirements have not changed over this
period.
Therefore, the change is in either my behavior or that of my students.
Comments?
--
The best argument against Intelligent Design is that fact that
people believe in it.
* PAUL K. BRANDON [EMAIL PROTECTED] *
* Psychology Dept Minnesota State University *
* 23 Armstrong Hall, Mankato, MN 56001 ph 507-389-6217 *
* http://krypton.mnsu.edu/~pkbrando/ *
Annette Kujawski Taylor, Ph. D.
Professor of Psychology
University of San Diego
5998 Alcala Park
San Diego, CA 92110
619-260-4006
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Annette Kujawski Taylor, Ph. D.
Professor of Psychology
University of San Diego
5998 Alcala Park
San Diego, CA 92110
619-260-4006
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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