> As far as the "which behaviors" question...
> > Take the "premarital sex" and "cheating on test" examples you
> > refer
> > to below. Two completely different things. Religions seem to put
> > exceptional focus on control of sexuality, and I would never argue that
> > fundamentalists dominate violations of their own sexual ethics. Of
> > course, the remarkable string of conservatives (off the top of my head,
> > Hyde, Livingston, Gingrich, Helen C., Barr, Burton...) revealed during
> > the 1998 impeachment to have had affairs even in some cases as they
> > investigated the President's affair certainly raises questions.
Don't confuse political conservativism with religious conservativism.
I suspect that too many political conservatives are a lot closer to Pharisee-
type behavior than being Christ-like.
> > Regardless, whether violations of the fundamentalists' ethics constitute
> > "misbehavior" is of course not an empirical question.
> > As far as more basic character issues which are reflected in
> > things
> > like "cheating on tests", I simply disagree. Whatever strengths
> > religious fundamentalists have, honesty is clearly not among them (see
> > below). As I noted in my other message, if that's not already apparent
> > to you (and I obviously suspect that it isn't), then there's not much
> > point in continuing the discussion.
No, it is not apparent to me. You have not given any specific evidence that
religious people are dishonest.
You do realize that dishonesty violates biblical principles, right?
> > > I contend that outward behavior is not necessarily a manifestation of
> > > religiosity, but nonetheless it can be quite telling. Take the
> > > students at your school -- I'm willing to bet my next paycheck that
> > those who
> > > score higher on religiosity scales are less likely to be having
> > > premarital
> >
> > > sex, cheating on tests, etc.
> >
> > it'd be pretty difficult to explain the
> > central role of dishonesty in fundamentalist endeavours such as
> > creationist teaching
which could just be attributed to different beliefs than outright lying
> the attempt impeach President Clinton
this is dishonesty? I thought that was a political procedure?
>, the attempt
> > to recriminalize abortion
based on a different belief system than that which put the law into place
Again, no specifics, and confounding political behavior with religious beliefs.
IN SUM,
I'm not saying religious people don't lie, and they don't bend the truth. And
I'm not saying they don't look at the facts sometimes (e.g., teaching
evolution) simply because it automatically (but not necessarily) contradicts
their belief system. But, please don't try to make us out to be a bunch of
political hysterics who are out picketing anyone we disagree with and using
dishonest tactics to promote our simple-minded theology.
BTW, Paul, I do admire your intellect and ability to debate complicated
issues. Hopefully we are disagreeing without being disagreeable. For me, if
I wind up looking like a jerk in this debate, I have just violated enacting the
very theology that I am sincerely trying to explain/defend.
************************************************************************
Jim Guinee, Ph.D.
Director of Training & Adjunct Professor
President, Arkansas College Counselor Association
University of Central Arkansas Counseling Center
313 Bernard Hall Conway, AR 72035 USA
(501) 450-3138 (office) (501) 450-3248 (fax)
"No one wants advice -- only corroboration"
-John Steinbeck
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