On the subject of Newton's "shoulders of giants" sentence, in response to my writing > My recollection of the context of the remark is that the contention > that it was a sarcastic putdown of Hooke is nothing more than an > interpretation of Newtons's words -- though as these things go > nowadays, a contention repeated rapidly becomes a 'fact'.
Paul Brandon wrote: >Could be, but humility does not seem to have been >one of Newton's virtues ;-) Unfortunately, I don't have >a copy of Gleick handy. A couple of points. Many of Newton's personality characteristics were certainly far from admirable, but can we really generalise about his lack of humility when he wrote of himself: “I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.” As Chris Green observed >The line also wasn't original to Newton. He was quoting >(perhaps ironically) the 12th century philosopher, Bernard >of Chartres. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_on_the_shoulders_of_giants Googling has located what is evidently the original source of the contention that the famous quote of Newton's that he only saw further because he stood on the shoulders of giants is a put-down of Hooke: John Faulkner, Prof. of Astronomy, University of California at Santa Cruz. Here is what Newton wrote in a letter to Hooke in 1676: "What Descartes did was a good step. You have added much in several ways and especially in taking the colours of thin plates into philosophical consideration. If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." Here is Faulkner's interpretation, as provided by the science writer John Gribbin, who has promoted Faulkner's contention in his book "Science: A History" (2002). (Gribbin, incidentally, tells us that Faulkner was his supervisor when he was a student.) "What Des-Cartes did was a good step." (Interpretation: he did it before you did.) "You have added much in several ways, & especially in taking ye colours of thin plates into philosophical consideration." (Interpretation: all you did was follow where Descartes led.) "If I have seen further it is by standing on ye shoulders of Giants." (Interpretation, taking particular notice of Newton's careful use of the capital "G": my research owes nothing to anybody except the ancients, least of all to a little runt like you.) http://www.lifesci.sussex.ac.uk/home/John_Gribbin/misc.htm Gribbin writes that he has interpolated "Faulkner's interpretation of Newton's intended meaning". It's not entirely clear if he is quoting Faulkner's actual words or paraphrasing them, but no matter, we get the gist. It seems to me that Faulkner, knowing the rancorous disputation between Newton and Hooke, hit upon the notion that Newton's famous quotation was a put-down of Hooke, and set about interpreting each sentence in the relevant passage in terms that supposedly support his conjecture. To my mind, the interpretations tell us at least as much about Faulkner's method of justifying his conjecture as about Newton: Come up with the conjecture, then interpret Newton's words in such a way as to apparently lend support to the conjecture. (Shades of Freud!) Let's look at the 'evidence' in two parts: 1. "What Descartes did was a good step. You have added much in several ways and especially in taking the colours of thin plates into philosophical consideration. If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." To interpret "You have added much [to Descartes] in several ways and especially in taking the colours of thin plates into philosophical consideration…" as Newton's insinuating that all Hooke did was follow where Descartes led seems to me more than a step too far in exegesis. 2. "If I have seen further it is by standing on ye shoulders of Giants." (Interpretation, taking particular notice of Newton's careful use of the capital "G": my research owes nothing to anybody except the ancients, least of all to a little runt like you.) Now from my limited knowledge of the subject, I have the impression that in those times nouns frequently had the first letter in upper case. I recall that even Darwin did this on occasion in his letters, and I rapidly found the following instances: "…my Studies consist of Adam Smith and Locke…" (Letter, 1829) "We arrived here this morning; as a Ship sails for England tomorrow." (Letter, 1836) Was Hooke a "runt" (Chambers: "small, stunted")? According to the contemporary diarist John Aubrey, "He is but of midling stature, something crooked…". http://www.roberthooke.org.uk/robert_hooke.htm So he was of "midling stature", i.e., of average height (even if he had a stoop), not diminutive as the story as recycled now has it. Let me make a suggestion. In our current age, Faulkner's conjecture is catching on because some people love to look for cynical interpretations of people's words or behaviour, and when such an interpretation is not evident in the actual words or behaviour, then let's *interpret* these in such a way that they may be 'seen' to be vindictive, or whatever. Of course, anyone can play that game. I note that on John Faulkner's faculty website, at the end of an account of his scientific projects, there is a reference to his interpretation of Newton's famous comment. (http://astro.ucsc.edu/~dept/faculty/faulkner.html) Faulkner's name was certainly not known outside astronomy circles, but now, with the help of recycling of his contention about the Newton quote, including in Gribbin's popular book on science, this is no longer the case. He has certainly found a way of getting his name more widely known. I'm not actually saying that this is the reason why Faulkner has taken the trouble to promote his interpretation of the Newton quotation – but nor do I profess to recognise what was in Newton's mind when he wrote the sentence in question. P.S. Gribbin (an excellent writer on science for the general public) has form when it comes to subscribing to doubtful interpretations outside of his field of competence. In their biography of Einstein (1993) he and his co-author Michael White endorse the Jungian analyst Anthony Storr's suggestion that Einstein "demonstrated schizophrenic tendencies", and include as part of the (highly dubious) 'evidence' for this, such as his "extreme distaste for authority": "The fact that Einstein had a very poor memory for his own childhood demonstrates a subconscious attempt to eradicate a personal history." (Interestingly, a reference on the Wikipedia page for the "shoulders of giants" quotation indicates that Michael White also promotes the Faulkner interpretation.) Allen Esterson Former lecturer, Science Department Southwark College, London [email protected] http://www.esterson.org ---------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Brandon <[email protected]> Subject: Re: tips digest: September 17, 2010 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 10:53:46 -0500 Could be, but humility does not seem to have been one of Newton's virtues ;-) Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of Gleick handy. On Sep 18, 2010, at 10:44 AM, Allen Esterson wrote: > > Paul Brandon wrote: >> When Newton made the remark about 'standing on the >> shoulders of giants' it was a sarcastic putdown to a rival >> (Hooke, maybe -- Gleick gives the details), not a >> statement to be taken literally. > > My recollection of the context of the remark is that the contention > that it was a sarcastic putdown of Hooke is nothing more than an > interpretation of Newtons's words -- though as these things go > nowadays, a contention repeated rapidly becomes a 'fact'. Paul Brandon Emeritus Professor of Psychology Minnesota State University, Mankato [email protected] ------------------------------------------------- From: Louis E. Schmier <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Galileo Was Wrong? Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 17:19:50 +0000 I'm not sure Glieck's short book is the final say. Make it a good day -Louis- --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected]. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=4972 or send a blank email to leave-4972-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
