HI Paul

With respect to struggling with writing the paper I agree - they do struggle 
with the content and therefore (perhaps) do not feel they can also attend to 
the process of writing. But as an instructor you can make them focus on writing 
vs content in how you construct the assignments. For example, in the 
introductory research methods course (the purpose is writing and how to do 
research) I deemphasize the content while they are learning the other tasks. So 
the two papers have a 2 page intro and a 2 page discussion (in addition to the 
other sections but those are more mechanical). We then work through (with lots 
of scaffolding exercises) how one would organize and write such 2 pages (about 
5 paragraphs). The exercises include having references due early, require them 
to turn in actual copies of the articles (to discourage just reading 
abstracts), and having journal club (for lack of a better name) in which they 
present a key research article to their group (during lab) so that they get 
used to not just reading the abstract and see the usefulness of taking written 
notes. They also have to rearrange an introduction from a paper where I've 
scrambled the paragraphs. So lots of small exercises (with emphasis on writing, 
organization, etc.). Of course APA style is covered in separate assignments. I 
think it is perfectly OK that APA style is an afterthought (it takes a lot more 
practice to make it a habit although serving as peer reviewer is excellent 
practice).

I also agree that drafts are not worth much if they are not taken seriously. 
I've tried peer review of drafts many different ways and I have now reached a 
system that really works. The draft is not a draft but their "best work". It is 
not graded but they will lose points on the final paper if the paper is 
incomplete (missing sections, missing references, less than 2 pages of intro, 
etc.). Then everyone gets two papers to peer review. Before peer review I talk 
to them at length about the types of comments that are useful (and I solicit 
their advice on this as well since most have tried peer review before). Again 
the peer review is not graded but if they obviously blow it off they lose 
points on the final paper (sometimes they peer review in lab which solves that 
problem). I do not check the peer reviews but encourage students to ask me if 
there are disagreements or problems with the peer reviews. My rule is that they 
can ask anything they want (of me) but it needs to be a specific question. I do 
read or "look over" their papers. The system works great. In fact, I now always 
have students turn in peer reviewed papers which are always much better. The 
students really come to like it and rely on it as a way of making their 
thinking and writing better. Of course I tell them (many times) that no one but 
themselves can make the paper better and it is not the job of the peer reviewer 
to catch every mistake or error. A student can fix every problem (as pointed 
out by peer reviewers) and move a paper from a D to a C. Also, it only works if 
the draft is actually their "best work".

Anyway, just some thoughts on how to focus on writing. I also require them to 
turn in their first graded research methods paper with their second research 
methods paper and I tell them that I will count twice off for errors on the 
second that they made on their first. That seems to actually force students to 
look carefully at the graded comments on the first paper.

Marie



****************************************************
Marie Helweg-Larsen, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Psychology
Danish Institute for Study Abroad (DIS), +45 2065 1360
Dickinson College (on leave 2010/2011)
http://users.dickinson.edu/~helwegm/index.html
****************************************************

From: Paul C Bernhardt [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 22:06
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: Re: [tips] Please check my paper BEFORE you grade it




I've tried both the draft and revise and the multiple papers methods. I'm not 
convinced that students improve their writing much in our psychology courses 
through either method, but for different reasons.

The problem with multiple papers, I think, is that many students are struggling 
with the ideas of the papers, so focus on their writing becomes secondary in 
some ways. Even if you tell them about their reference list being poorly 
organized, or their abstract reading like an introduction to the paper rather 
than a summary of the paper, they don't put their attention on it. The struggle 
for many is too basic: What can and should be said. How to say it and how to 
polish it are after the fact. Adding the 'APA doo-dads' are afterthoughts, also.

The problem with the draft and revise method is that it is hard for the 
students (and often the instructor) to take it seriously. A draft is not a 
completed document. So, I find defining what constitutes a final product for a 
pre-completion submission rather difficult. Grading it can be problematic. All 
the time it runs through my head, 'this is a draft' so I have a hard time 
treating it with enough gravity, taking enough time on it. The students, 
likewise, have the same problem. Then comes the final document. Suppose you see 
that they have a terribly awkward sentence in the final version. You look back 
at the draft and, oops, that sentence is in the draft exactly that way and you 
didn't catch it. It feels unfair to take off points for it.

Maybe it is my limitations of understanding how to approach either of these two 
ways of doing papers, but I find that neither are satisfactory for me nor am I 
convinced they help students develop actual skills. What am I missing?

Paul C Bernhardt
Frostburg State University
Frostburg, MD, USA
pcbernhardt[at]frostburg[d0t]edu




On Feb 3, 2011, at 9:36 AM, Steven Specht wrote:




I used to look at drafts, but it got to a point where I thought most students 
were taking advantage (i.e., throwing something together only to then have me 
organize and revise their work). BUT, I also am interested in teaching writing. 
What I have gone to is a series of papers throughout the course of the semester 
so that they can use the comments from previous papers to work on subsequent 
papers. I think in a way, this may actually model the development of "real" 
writing across the years.
-S

========================================================
Steven M. Specht, Ph.D.
Professor of Psychology
Department of Psychology
Utica College
Utica, NY 13502
(315) 792-3171
monkeybrain-collagist.blogspot.com<http://monkeybrain-collagist.blogspot.com/>

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and 
convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
Martin Luther King Jr.

On Feb 3, 2011, at 9:27 AM, Marc Carter wrote:



Call me crazy, but I always *require* at least one draft -- otherwise I'm not 
really teaching writing, it seems to me.  They won't use feedback on one 
assignment to improve another, so I do a whole series of ideas, feedback, 
initial references, feedback, annotated outline, feedback, draft, feedback, and 
sometimes another draft with feedback.  This helps avoid the bought-paper, and 
I feel like it teaches them how to write.

But the biggest classes I do this with are 20.  :)

m

--
Marc Carter, PhD
Associate Professor and Chair
Department of Psychology
College of Arts & Sciences
Baker University
--


-----Original Message-----
From: Shearon, Tim [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 4:05 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: RE: [tips] Please check my paper BEFORE you grade it


Miguel, et al:
I do understand that some of us have lighter "student loads"
and that not everyone can do so but I do make that offer to
everyone. Here is why- I don't think it means you have to
read the paper twice! You've already seen it and thus the
second read is less "dense" and full of errors. I basically
give a "window" for each course during which they can turn in
drafts. In addition to getting better papers the second time
(I make them turn in the first paper with the suggestions/etc
when they turn in the final paper) I find that very few
students actually take advantage of the offer! If memory
serves, the best and worst writers are often the ones who
take advantage of it in upper division courses. But I've
never had more than four or five students in a class turn in
drafts so, knock on wood, it has not caused me a huge extra
work load. I suspect some of the workload created is
dependent on a number of factors including teaching style,
courses taught, institution, etc. so it is hard to say
without trying it what the response would be but it works for
me at this institution. :) Tim
_______________________________ Timothy O. Shearon, PhD
Professor, Department of Psychology The College of Idaho
Caldwell, ID 83605
email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>

teaching: intro to neuropsychology; psychopharmacology;
general; history and systems

"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." Dorothy Parker
________________________________________
From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> 
[[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:44 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: Re: [tips] Please check my paper BEFORE you grade it

I usually tell my students who make such requests that it
would not be fair for me to do it just for her without
extending the same offer to everyone else. In turn, it would
not be fair to me to have to read all student papers twice.



Miguel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Karl L Wuensch" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)"
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 4:25:52 PM
Subject: [tips] Please check my paper BEFORE you grade it

   How best to handle the student request that you check her
paper for errors BEFORE you grade it so she can be sure to
get a perfect paper when she hands it in later?

Cheers,

Karl W.

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