Hi, I'm kind of late to this thread, but I have listened to Pepperberg speak and have read many of her articles. I also asked her once if she had any videotapes of training sessions with Alex and she seemed quite offended (the answer was no). As someone slated to inherit an African gray (my mom has one--Mom is 87, the bird is about 30, they live to be around 60), I have spent a great deal of time around said bird. He (actually it's a she, we didn't know the sex until he laid some eggs, but by then we were too accustomed to calling it he) is amazing in his repertoire and learns after very few trials, but I don't believe he has astonishing cognitive abilities, nor do I believe that Alex had those abilities. The birds are quick learners and their responses sound human; e.g., my dad has been dead for about 8 years, but Pepper--my Mom's bird--still "answers" the phone in my dad's voice when it rings.He greets me with a cheerful "Good morning" in my mother's voice, calls my oldest daughter in an embarrassingly loud voice that for some reason sounds like me, calls the cats, barks like a dog, emits a shriek like a smoke alarm, burps, coughs, farts, and on and on. He/she also bites me and draws blood. Needless to say, I am not looking forward to becoming his new person. I also spent much of my time as a graduate student running pigeons in operant chambers. Turns out that pigeons can sort things into categories such as cars, chairs, flowers, and other categories with the same degree of accuracy as a 3-year-old. I see a big difference in the abilities of a bird as measured in an operant chamber and the abilities of one who is more of a performer than a subject. (The 3-year-olds were not run in an operant chamber.) Carol
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 8:44 PM, Paul Brandon <[email protected]> wrote: > I'm questioning, not denying. > I'm convinced that Alex was doing things that are generally regarded as > beyond the capabilities of non humans. > I'm just saying that I would find the work more convincing in all of its > details if the controls were tighter. > Remember that Clever Hans was NOT a case of deliberate fraud. > And I found Pepperberg's explanations (at her Association for Behavior > Analysis meetings presentation) for why she had to have people who had > worked with Alex physically present uncomfortably similar to some of the > arguments made against tight experimental controls in ESP 'research' (scare > quotes intentional). > > Paul Brandon > Emeritus Professor of Psychology > Minnesota State University, Mankato > [email protected] > > On Apr 17, 2011, at 10:27 AM, <[email protected]> > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On 17 Apr 2011 at 9:44, Paul Brandon wrote: > > > >> I've seen Alex at work, and he was impressive. > >> For once, though, I agree with Dr. Sylvester; > >> Pepperberg's parrots never perform out of the sight of their trainers, > >> with the usual claims that the phenomenon is too fragile to be > >> manifested without the emotional support of the trainer. Red flag. > >> I'm still waiting for a systematic replication in an operant chamber. > > > > I was surprised to hear Paul question Pepperberg's work by invoking > > the Clever Hans effect. I haven't looked into her work in any detail, > > but the fact that she publishes in respected journals led me to > > believe that she must have successfully dealt with this issue. > > > > In fact, it turns out she published an early paper on Alex in the > > Journal of the Experimental Analysis of Behavior, the holy book of > > operant conditioning. So if they felt it was kosher, can it be > > otherwise? > > > > The article is: > > > > Pepperberg, I. (1988). Comprehension of "absence" by an African grey > > parrot: learning with respect to questions of same/different. JEAB, > > 50, 553-564 > > > > and it's available for free at http://tinyurl.com/3j3jel3 > > > > She does deal with the issue in her methodology (see p. 558, right > > column), although she refers to an earlier paper for details, which I > > didn't chase down. It's apparently not strictly double-blind, but the > > primary trainer sits with her back to Alex, and is unaware of the > > stimuli being presented. Two students who did not participate in > > Alex's training do the testing. One selects the stimuli; the other > > presents them. I couldn't tell how well this protected against > > inadvertent cuing by the students but presumably she talks about this > > in the cited papers. > > > > Anyone know what the consensus is on this issue for Alex? Or should > > we just trust JEAB (than which none is purer) and its reviewers? > > > > Stephen > > -------------------------------------------- > > Stephen L. Black, Ph.D. > > Professor of Psychology, Emeritus > > Bishop's University > > Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada > > e-mail: sblack at ubishops.ca > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13438.3b5166ef147b143fedd04b1c4a64900b&n=T&l=tips&o=10086 > > or send a blank email to > leave-10086-13438.3b5166ef147b143fedd04b1c4a649...@fsulist.frostburg.edu > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected]. > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=177920.a45340211ac7929163a0216244443341&n=T&l=tips&o=10088 > or send a blank email to > leave-10088-177920.a45340211ac7929163a0216244443...@fsulist.frostburg.edu > -- Carol DeVolder, Ph.D. Professor and Chair, Department of Psychology St. Ambrose University 518 West Locust Street Davenport, Iowa 52803 563-333-6482 This e-mail might be confidential, so please don't share it. --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected]. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=10115 or send a blank email to leave-10115-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
