Hi Rick & Everyone, Looking at some of Piaget's and Einstein's autobiographical writings side-by-side, I'm struck with how little Einstein mentions other people, and even how much rarer it is for Einstein to describe anecdotes with *anybody* (e.g., Out of My Later Years, Autobiographical Notes). Another idiosyncrasy in Einstein's writing style is that it often begins with a discussion of a concepts' development. For example, note the interest studying the development in our first thoughts about space and time scientifically rather than philosophically, like developmental psychology's early departure from philosophy, in "The Meaning of Relativity":
The theory of relativity is intimately connected with the theory of space and time. I shall therefore begin with a brief investigation of the origin of our ideas of space and time, although in doing so I know that I introduce a controversial subject. The object of all science, whether natural science or psychology, is to co-ordinate our experiences and to bring them into a logical system. How are our customary ideas of space and time related to the character of our experiences? ... I am convinced that the philosophers have had a harmful effect upon the progress of scientific thinking in removing certain fundamental concepts from the domain of empiricism, where they are under our control, to the intangible heights of the a priori. For even if it should appear that the universe of ideas cannot be deduced from experience by logical means, but is, in a sense, a creation of the human mind, without which no science is possible, nevertheless this universe of ideas is just as little independent of the nature of our experiences as clothes are of the form of the human body. ... If we weave together a narrative, we might find a historical confluence across decades-long bidirectional influences of many intellectuals on each other despite their vastly different fields (e.g., Miller's "Imagery & Scientific Thought"). This is what I meant when I answered how developmental psychology influenced Einstein. It's nothing like a proof of the causes of Einstein's thoughts in the way we would hope for in psychological research. Timeline-wise, Piaget is 'too late' to influence the origins of relativity. James Baldwin (who originated many of Piaget's ideas) is early enough, though I don't know of any quotes by Einstein about him. From a historical perspective, I see evidence developmental psychology was an important influence on Einstein's theorizing. But from a psychological science perspective, I think there is little evidence developmental psychology was a cause of the origins of Einstein's ideas about specific or general relativity. Best wishes, Kevin On Jun 8, 2011, at 12:53 PM, Rick Froman wrote: > Thank you, Kevin for that very informative excerpt illuminating the > connection between Piaget and Einstein (and the amusing description > of the velocity study). It is interesting to consider the ways that > children think about time, space, number and causality and how they > might be different from adult conceptions just as relativity is > different from an intuitive perception of physics. > > What is described here seems to be an interaction of great minds in > seeing the similarities between their work but it seems to fall a > little short of indicating that Einstein's thinking about > developmental psychology pre-dated and influenced his theorizing > about relativity. For example, the date of 1928, mentioned as the > meeting between Einstein and Piaget would have been well after > Einstein's publication of his theory of relativity. > > Before I start another relativity-inspired myth, I wonder if there > is any evidence that Einstein was influenced by developmental > psychology in a way that predated or was concurrent with his > theorizing about relativity. > > Rick > > From: K. H. Grobman [[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 12:02 PM > To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) > Subject: [tips] Jean Piaget & Albert Einstein > > Hi Rick & Everyone, > > Rick asks what influence develpmental psychology may have had on > Albert Einstein's work. Jean Piaget studied children's invention of > time, space, number, and causality (inspired by Immanuel Kant). > Einstein focused on the same things in the physical world. Einstein > and Piaget spoke with each, and about each other, a number of times. > > Einstein used the words "so simple only a genius could have thought > of it" to describe the theory advanced by ... Jean Piaget that > children don't think like grown-ups. ~ Seymour Papert (the inventor > of the children's computer programming language Logo writing about > Piaget for TIme Magazine's "The Century’s Greatest Minds", page 105, > March 29, 1999). > > Einstein was especially intrigued, not only that children think > differently, but that their thinking has its own internal logic > (i.e., stage). It's much like relativity has its own internal logic > separate from the earlier paradigm of Newtonian mechanics. Coming > full circle, Kuhn's "paradigm shifts" of scientific progress were > inspired by Piaget's stages too. > > Does a child's first conception of velocity include comprehension of > it as a function of distance and time, or is his notion more > primitive and intuitive? Albert Einstein himself posed this question > to me in 1928 when I was demonstrating some experiments on causality > to him one day. I have since performed a very simple experiment > which shows that a child does not think of velocity in terms of the > distance-time relation. We place before the child two tunnels, one > of which is obviously much longer than the other, and then we push a > doll through each tunnel with a metal rod in such a way that the > dolls arrive at the other end of both tunnels simultaneously. We ask > the child: "Is one tunnel longer than the other?" "Yes, that one." > "Did both dolls go through the tunnels at the same speed, or did one > go faster than the other?" "The same speed." "Why?" "Because they > arrived at the same time." ~ Jean Piaget (Scientific American, March > 1957). > > I wish academia today were structued to inspire us to be more like > Einstein and Piaget - thinking so deeply about fields beyond our own. > > Best wishes, > Kevin > > > > On Jun 8, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Rick Froman wrote: >> Of further relevance to psychology, did anyone else read this part >> of the interview with Alberto Martinez: >> >> http://www.utexas.edu/know/2011/06/06/science_secrets/ >> >> "As for Einstein, writers have contrived reasons why he made his >> theory of relativity: that his wife was his secret coworker, that he >> was influenced by patent applications, modern art or mystical >> beliefs about God. But no, these are all just myths. Surprisingly, >> there’s more evidence that Einstein was influenced by, of all >> things, developmental psychology. I’m not saying that this was the >> most important factor (optics and electrodynamics were far more >> important), just that it was more important than the factors I just >> mentioned." >> >> If others did read it, am I the only one who doesn't know what he is >> talking about? What influence did developmental psychology have on >> Einstein's theorizing? >> >> >> Rick _.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._ ~ all you can take with you is that which you've given away ~ ~ teaching & learning developmental psychology ~ ~ http://www.DevPsy.org ~ --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected]. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=10930 or send a blank email to leave-10930-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
