Speaking of this, and recent concerns about Obama's proposals that value added or other factors be important rating factors, Washington Monthly has been developing this kind of measure in their college ratings over the years. Their 2013 ratings come out on Monday, Aug 26, but the 2012 ratings have been out a while. One of the more important ratings, IMO, is their Social Mobility measure to capture graduation rates of low income students. They take expected graduation rate based on entering SAT scores, percentage of students on Pell grants, HS GPA, etc. compared to the actual graduation rate, and that difference is (apparently) divided by the effective cost of education for the student. That is a kind of bang for buck measure (though they have a separate measure of that coming for 2013*).
I was pleased to see our school performing comparatively well, better than nearly all the other schools in our state that I could see the data for (I couldn't see the data for University of Maryland or Johns Hopkins, for instance. That social mobility measure provides a very satisfying perspective on the private for profit (Argosy, Kaplan, Phoenix). They tend to graduate very low percentages compared to expectations (which are often low percentages, as it is) and cost a lot of money. Their new bang for buck measure appears to take into account loan default rate. A good school has low effective cost (which takes into account the proportion of grants, scholarships, etc.), high graduation rate and low default rate on loans. Concerns expressed here about such measures having unintended consequences are not off base, for sure. That is, less employable majors may have difficulty being justified… but I'm less concerned about refusing to admit students from difficult backgrounds, as long as an expected graduation rate is compared to actual graduation rates. The unintended consequence there, as we already see, is grade inflation pressures. But, I like that such bang for buck measures make the private for profit schools look very bad (I heard on All In on MSNBC that their default rates can be 40%!). I'm hopeful that is the intention of such a plan, to show them for what they are, gorgers at the trough of federal education funds. Beware, you will be greeted by repeated popups promoting the upcoming ratings. But, I find the data unique and compelling. http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/rankings_2012/masters_universities_rank.php Paul On Aug 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, Tim Shearon wrote: > > John and others- "On the other hand, I didn't really need the cool French 10 > speed nor the Italian hiking boots etc etc. " Sounds very familiar! Or add to > that the North Face tent (when they were a small hand constructing company no > one had heard of the) or the MSR stove . . . A very few splurges, yes. > > My own experience has been that students who take loans at our school are > similar to the way John and I were as undergrads. I also lived in an > apartment carved out of an older house near campus during two years when I > had loans (it was cheaper than the dorms, not more expensive). There was no > pool, I rode the bicycle or walked most places (mine was British) because I > couldn't afford the 75-cent/gallon gas prices. I ate at home most of the time > (cheaper) and dined out once a week on "all you can eat night" at a local > pasta place (because I was running 40 miles a week). My fabulous wardrobe > consisted of jeans and t-shirts mostly. I also worked two part time jobs much > of the time and paid most of my own way the last two years at a private > liberal arts college because both my parents had forced medical retirement. > The parents helped all they could afford. Yes, today's students do need a > cell phone- but they don't pay for internet and many work part time to pay > for a few extras. (I have very few students who drive a new car or who don't > live a rather Spartan lifestyle). I will admit that I'm somewhat nonplussed > by some of their attitudes toward buying their textbooks. :) > Tim > > _______________________________ > Timothy O. Shearon, PhD > Professor, Department of Psychology > The College of Idaho > Caldwell, ID 83605 > email: [email protected] > > teaching: intro to neuropsychology; psychopharmacology; general; history and > systems > > "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." Dorothy Parker > > > > > In some cases, because they need to pay for a fancy apartment with > swimming pool etc,, a smart phone with unlimited service, a new car, meals > off campus, and all those essentials that I never had when a student. > > Cheers, > [Karl L. Wuensch]<http://core.ecu.edu/psyc/wuenschk/klw.htm> > From: Paul C Bernhardt [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:41 AM > To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) > Subject: Re: [tips] Obama on Federal Support of Education > > Why do they have to get a loan to get an education? To me, that seems to be > the more important question. > > Paul > > On Aug 22, 2013, at 11:53 AM, Wuensch, Karl L wrote: > > “It is time to stop subsidizing schools that are not producing good results.” > ☺ > > “Good results” means graduation, employment, and pay-back of loans. > > I expect universities will be evaluating departments in the same way. Who > pays her loans back more reliably – the graduate with a degree in management > information systems or the one with a degree in psychology? > > Cheers, > ________________________________ > <image001.jpg><http://www.ecu.edu/> > Karl L. Wuensch, Professor and ECU Scholar/Teacher, Dept. of Psychology > East Carolina University, Greenville NC 27858-4353, USA, > Earth<http://core.ecu.edu/psyc/wuenschk/Earth.htm> > Voice: 252-328-9420 Fax: 252-328-6283 > http://core.ecu.edu/psyc/wuenschk/klw.htm > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to tips as: > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. > > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13441.4e79e96ebb5671bdb50111f18f263003&n=T&l=tips&o=27245 > > (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) > > or send a blank email to > leave-27245-13441.4e79e96ebb5671bdb50111f18f263...@fsulist.frostburg.edu<mailto:leave-27245-13441.4e79e96ebb5671bdb50111f18f263...@fsulist.frostburg.edu> > > > > > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to tips as: > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. > > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13060.c78b93d4d09ef6235e9d494b3534420e&n=T&l=tips&o=27267 > > (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) > > or send a blank email to > leave-27267-13060.c78b93d4d09ef6235e9d494b35344...@fsulist.frostburg.edu<mailto:leave-27267-13060.c78b93d4d09ef6235e9d494b35344...@fsulist.frostburg.edu> > > > > > > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to tips as: > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. > > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13338.f659d005276678c0696b7f6beda66454&n=T&l=tips&o=27279 > > (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) > > or send a blank email to > leave-27279-13338.f659d005276678c0696b7f6beda66...@fsulist.frostburg.edu<mailto:leave-27279-13338.f659d005276678c0696b7f6beda66...@fsulist.frostburg.edu> > > > > > > > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to tips as: > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. > > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13545.bae00fb8b4115786ba5dbbb67b9b177a&n=T&l=tips&o=27282 > > (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) > > or send a blank email to > leave-27282-13545.bae00fb8b4115786ba5dbbb67b9b1...@fsulist.frostburg.edu<mailto:leave-27282-13545.bae00fb8b4115786ba5dbbb67b9b1...@fsulist.frostburg.edu> > > > > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected]. > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13441.4e79e96ebb5671bdb50111f18f263003&n=T&l=tips&o=27286 > or send a blank email to > leave-27286-13441.4e79e96ebb5671bdb50111f18f263...@fsulist.frostburg.edu > <image001.jpg> --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected]. 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