Dear Tipsters,
So would it be fair to say that the student submitted the image as an
“illusion” but did not herself identify what was “illusory”? That is, our
failure to find the other interpretation for the ambiguous figure may reflect
the fact that there is no other interpretation!
Stuart
___________________________________________________________________________
"Floreat Labore"
[cid:[email protected]]
"Recti cultus pectora roborant"
Stuart J. McKelvie, Ph.D., Phone: 819 822 9600 x 2402
Department of Psychology, Fax: 819 822 9661
Bishop's University,
2600 rue College,
Sherbrooke,
Québec J1M 1Z7,
Canada.
E-mail: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> (or
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>)
Bishop's University Psychology Department Web Page:
http://www.ubishops.ca/ccc/div/soc/psy<blocked::http://www.ubishops.ca/ccc/div/soc/psy>
Floreat Labore"
[cid:[email protected]]
[cid:[email protected]]
___________________________________________________________________________
From: Kenneth Steele [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 5:04 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Cc: Mike Palij
Subject: Re: [tips] Illusion?
Hi Jim:
Yes, it sounds like she didn’t understand the assignment or was trying to
squeeze by.
BTW, the png extension doesn’t indicate she used a camera. PNG is a more
up-to-date image format protocol for showing raster images.
See our buddies on *oogle-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Network_Graphics
Ken
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kenneth M. Steele, Ph.D.
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Professor
Department of Psychology http://www.psych.appstate.edu
Appalachian State University
Boone, NC 28608
USA
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Nov 8, 2015, at 4:48 PM, Jim Matiya
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi everyone,
Thanks for all your replies to my question. A friend of mine, who is a
psych teacher, asked about the illusion. It was an assignment, I believe. I am
guessing that students had to find find five illusions and explain them. The
teacher sent me the girl's powerpoint. I tried to insert the picture into my
e-mail, but I could not.
Then as I was trying to save the image, I noticed it had a png extension, which
tells me, she took a picture of this image and used it her powerpoint
illusion. I changed the extension to jpg and then I could paste it in a word
document. The thought of a virus never crossed my mind. Sorry I won't do that
again.
In her powerpoint, she said she had "problems" understanding this illusion. The
teacher asked for a reference and, of course, this student did not do that part
of the assignment.
I thought I could ask my colleagues, because maybe I was missing something.
Thank you for your input.
Jim
retired FGCU
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 8, 2015, at 11:19 AM, Mike Palij <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
On Sat, 07 Nov 2015 16:40:36 -0800, Jim Matiya wrote:
Has anyone on the list ever seen this illusion.
Alas and alack, I had the same problem that Annette had,
that is, the digest form does not allow attachments. Fortunately,
this time, the Mail Archive did contain the Word document
that had the image.
Can we all come to an agreement that attachments should not
be sent out with posts to Tips because (a) they don't appear
in the digest, (b) an attachment may appear on the
Mail Archive or it may not, and (c) the main reason most
mailing lists do not allow attachments is because this is
one of the easiest ways to spread computer viruses, either
intentionally or unintentionally. Is it really so difficult to
find a place on the web where images or text can be
accessed?
So, how about it?
To Jim: why did you call this picture an illusion? I mean, what
was its source? The simplest description of it is that it is a
minimalist representation of a meeting table from the view of
looking over the shoulder of the person at the head of the
table. It uses the simplest elements to represent the forms.
That being said, the question arises as to whether alternative
interpretations can be made of the forms. However, if the
forms used are relatively close to the prototypical representations
that people may have (i.e., how a long table looks from one end,
how well figures represent humans, and so on), there may be
severe limitations on the number of interpretations that are
possible (i.e., few "degrees of freedom").
One possible alternative interpretation of the image is that the
table is actually a Christmas tree and not a table but this interpretation
is violated by the central human figure and the human figures
along the sides. The "degrees of freedom" associated with this
image is quite limited unless there are key features that need
to be pointed out in order to see alternative images. This may
be best represented by the "my wife and my mother-in-law" aka
"young woman and old lady" illusion. For background on this
illusions see:
From the Wolfram website:
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/YoungGirl-OldWomanIllusion.html
From Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Wife_and_My_Mother-in-Law
From YouTube which has a video that shows which features
have to be altered to limit perception to the young woman or
old lady:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f1G6Nx5VDw
So, I have to ask again: in what sense is your image an illusion
outside of it being a minimalist representation of things in the
real world?
A student submitted as a an example...but I have never seen
it before. I am a little slow, can anyone see the figure-ground illusion?
Why should you see a figure-ground illusion? How does this
image contain the elements that are typically found in such
illusions? To what extent is the illusion produced by processing
by the perceptual system and is immune to cognitive intervention
(the classic vase-two faces image seems to fall into this
category) and to what extent does it depend upon knowledge
of objects/forms that can be mapped onto a pictorial representation
and compete for being the "key" interpretation of the image
(the young woman-old lady image seems to fall into this category;
speaking for myself, it took years for me to see the young woman
because the old lady interpretation was so compelling -- it
took an analysis of the features that contribute to the perception
of the young woman to allow me to switch between the two
interpretations)?
I have attached the picture
Attachments are bad, m'kay?
-Mike Palij
New York University
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
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