This does not answer anything in my email whatsoever! Nadim Kobeissi Symbolic Software • https://symbolic.software
> On 6 Jun 2026, at 12:10 AM, Deb Cooley <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ignoring the rest of this chain for a minute. I will say that the AD (me) > has been contemplating how to answer the questions, outside of what she has > already stated. > > The code of conduct does govern what happens on this IETF list, other lists, > in meetings, and on the datatracker. If someone here violates that code of > conduct they will be sanctioned. > > There is much that happens outside the boundaries of the IETF. There are > many, many social platforms on the Internet. There is no earthly way to even > begin, if we wanted to do what you suggest. > > At the risk of repeating myself: > Working group chairs are not required to sacrifice their personal lives or > personal opinions to serve. There is no requirement for separate email > addresses. What they and others do in their personal time, outside the > boundaries of the IETF (mail lists, meetings) is their own business and is > not subject to the Code of Conduct (RFC 7154). > > Lets stick with the code of conduct on IETF lists, in meetings, and the > datatracker for a start. I would also argue that we should give people the > benefit of the doubt that their intentions were good and honorable. > > Deb > Sec AD > > > > > On Fri, Jun 5, 2026 at 12:39 PM Nadim Kobeissi <[email protected]> > wrote: >> I’m noting for the record that the AD asked for this to be moved to its own >> thread and then, once it was, stopped answering it. >> >> Nadim Kobeissi >> Symbolic Software • https://symbolic.software <https://symbolic.software/> >> >> > On 28 May 2026, at 8:59 PM, Nadim Kobeissi <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > Deb, >> > >> > Moving [1] to a separate thread, per your request. >> > >> > You're right about several things: chairs keep their own lives and >> > opinions, there is no requirement for separate identities, and the >> > guidelines for conduct carry no machinery for policing what anyone does on >> > a personal platform. I am not asking you to monitor anyone's account. >> > >> > I do want to push back, with respect, on one part of the principle as >> > stated, that what a chair does on a personal platform is, for that reason >> > alone, none of the IETF's concern. I don't think that can be the rule, and >> > the cleanest way to see it is the limiting case: if a chair posted an >> > overt racial slur about participants in this group, none of us would say >> > "personal platform, not our business." What makes such a post the IETF's >> > concern is not where it was typed; it is its effect on the environment for >> > the people in this group, and its bearing on whether that person can still >> > hold a role that depends on their trust. Location is not the test. Effect, >> > and the requirements of the role, are. I am not equating a "go work at >> > Whole Foods" jab with an overt slur, I raise the extreme only to locate >> > the line, because once we agree the line is not "personal platform = >> > off-limits," what remains is the proportionate question actually in front >> > of us. >> > >> > Furthermore, on a personal note, I absolutely feel less safe participating >> > in the TLS WG if I know that I stand to be publicly ridiculed with the >> > chairs endorsing statements that I leave cryptography and go find other >> > work (or worse kinds of personal attacks; I can think of a few), if I post >> > something that they disagree with. There is no question in my mind that I >> > would at this point actively and strongly discourage all of my Lebanese >> > students from ever participating in the TLS WG. >> > >> > And at its far lesser magnitude, there is a different question here: not >> > whether the chair is entitled to a personal opinion (they plainly are) but >> > whether a chair who publicly endorses ridicule of a participant in an >> > active dispute can be seen to rule impartially on that participant's >> > draft, and on any FATT review requests originating from them. RFC 2418 >> > makes working group chairs accountable to the responsible AD and charges >> > them with managing the group's business fairly and even-handedly. The >> > impartiality of the chair is not a personal matter; it is a property of >> > the role, and it is the one thing the role cannot function without. >> > >> > So I am not asking for any sanction, and certainly not for removal. I am >> > asking you, as the AD who appoints and oversees the chairs, to weigh two >> > proportionate things: >> > >> > 1. Whether the appearance of impartiality has been affected enough that >> > recusal of the chair concerned from procedural rulings on >> > draft-usama-tls-risks-of-mlkem (and from any FATT requests originating >> > with the same author) is warranted, so that those calls are visibly made >> > by someone with no stake in how the author has been characterized. >> > >> > 2. A brief acknowledgment to the group that endorsing personal attacks on >> > contributors is inconsistent with the neutrality the chair role requires >> > independent of platform, and without anyone needing to monitor personal >> > accounts. >> > >> > If the chair concerned chose, on her own, to reconsider the public >> > endorsement, I think that would go a long way toward restoring confidence. >> > But I take your point that that is hers to decide, not something to be >> > compelled through the conduct guidelines. >> > >> > [1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/hmZH_Rkibo55nS62hQeo3Lx-TqQ/ >> > >> > Nadim Kobeissi >> > Symbolic Software • https://symbolic.software <https://symbolic.software/> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > TLS mailing list -- [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> > <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TLS mailing list -- [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> > _______________________________________________ > TLS mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
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