Jim Ramsay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Yeah, maybe the terminology is a bit different in tmda-cgi land. I've always thought it's silly to whitelist an email address but not release it from the queue. When I whitelist a message in tmda-cgi, it's usually an automated website email confirmation I know I'll be hearing from again, so I'd just end up releasing it anyway if they were separate steps.
But maybe we should make a note of that somewhere in the tmda-cgi docs, that "whitelist" also releases, just as "blacklist" also deletes. I suppose I could also add a function for "Whitelist but do not release", but I don't know who would use it.
Personally, I think the current behavior is wrong, and you should consider changing it.
<Consideration>
First, it's non-intuitive. In general, if presented with a GUI that had separate buttons for whitelist and release, I'd expect each to do only their job, not trigger one another.
I disagree with you here. I would intuitively assume that when I whitelist a pending queue message that message (since I just whitelisted it's sender) would then fall through into my inbox. I know this isn't the way TMDA thinks of it, though.
I suppose in my mind there is the distinction of whitelisting an /address/ which would mean "Let everything from %n from now on through my filter" and whitelisting a /message/ which I would consider meaning the queue owner wants the message in question and everything thereafter which comes from the sender.
That said, it would be good to have common terminology between TMDA and tmda-cgi, since they are so integrally related and users come to the same lists for help with both/either.
Next, it runs counter to the behavior of tmda-pending which is confusing.
Right, but I think that tmda-cgi is mostly geared to users who don't have shell access and couldn't/shouldn't run tmda-pending (so they wouldn't be bothered by such a distinction anyway).
On the other hand, users moving from the cmdline to tmda-cgi may have a difficult time adjusting. I agree with you that a terminology adjustment is a good idea.
Further, it's restrictive. If I just want to whitelist or blacklist the message without releasing or deleting it, I can't.
I don't know anyone who's wanted to do this, but I can add a separate option for those who may want it. In the deep deep innards of tmda-cgi there is a way to whitelist without releasing, whitelist then delete, blacklist without deleting, blacklist and delete, blacklist + report to spamcop then release, and any possible permutation you can come up with. However, there are some combinations I don't think make much sense. For example, we could try to release a message and then delete it, or vice-versa, but this wouldn't work very well.
From a useability standpoint, I think we should provide easy one- or two-click options for "commonly used" functions and provide less-commonly used functions elsewhere. For me personally, here's what I normally do with my pending queue:
- Gloat over how much spam I would have got without TMDA
- Every couple weeks I do a quick browse through to see if anyone legit got caught and didn't know how to read my confirmation request.
- Check for automatic website responses:
- If it's a one-time thing, I release it to my inbox, and don't want
to bother putting it on my whitelist.
- If I'm going to get other things (for example, forum update
notices), I whitelist it and release it.That's why in the theme I'm making there are two buttons - Release (which just releases, no appending), and Whitelist, which also releases since I'd just do this anyway and having a two-function button makes it quicker/easier for me. Everything else (like delete, blacklist, etc) is in a dropdown box.
Lastly, why is it necessary for whitelist/blacklist to trigger release/delete when the PENDING_RELEASE_APPEND and PENDING_DELETE_APPEND are available? One just has to set them to get the same behavior if desired.
Hmmm... good point, except that this is restrictive in a different way. If I set PENDING_RELEASE_APPEND and then come across a message I want to release but /not/ whitelist, I am unable to do so without 1) Exiting the pending utility 2) Editing my config file 3) Finding and releasing the message again 4) Setting my config back to the way it was. As for why it is necessary, it makes sense from a useability standpoint since I never "just whitelist" - I always whitelist and then release. It makes sense to me to have a quick/easy way to do both at once.
Maybe what we really need is a third option: a word that means "Whitelist-and-release" (and another one for Blacklist-and-Delete) and keep that separate syntactically and semanticaly from both "Whitelist" and "Release". I agree that we should keep the terminology the same in both TMDA and TMDA-cgi to avoid confusion such as the one which led to this discussion :)
Some ideas for "Whitelist and Release"
Release+ Whitelist+ Whitelist and Release Allow Permit
Gre7g, TMDA-Developers, TMDA users, what do you think? I agree with Jason that Whitelist should not mean "Whitelist and Release", but I want to be able to do both easily.
Option 1 - Maybe we need three options: Whitelist, Release, and "Both"
Option 2 - Maybe we could add an option in the settings for "1 - Whitelist also releases", "2 - Release also whitelists", "3 - Whitelist never Releases" so that users can assign their own intuitions to what the "Whitelist" or "Release" button does or does not do.
Comments? Flames? Suggestions?
</Consideration>
-- Jim Ramsay
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