"Craig R. McClanahan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jun 2002, Glenn Nielsen wrote:
>
>
>> [snip]
>> Providing a great java web server is not a goal of Tomcat.
>> [snip]
>
> I didn't know cats could talk :-).
>
> I didn't know that Glenn, or Pier, or any single developer, speaks for the
> entire Tomcat developer community.
Heya... Take me out of that list... As I _always_ said that I'm going to do
what matters to _ME_, and I'm going to do it on my own, I'm not involving
anyone in this community in the stuff I'm doing...
(Let's try to be PC and not involve those who are not involved)
> This statement (a great java web server) has always been one of my
> personal goals for Tomcat. People who use the current generation web
> connectors (unless they really do need it for the performance) have to be
> a little masochistic to put up with the configuration and admin quirks
> (although they are getting less onerous).
Craig... One question: have you ever worked on a site that ONLY IN SERVLET
REQUESTS does something like 10 MILLIONS requests a day (and you have to be
called out at 3 AM on a Saturday morning because things don't work?)
> But that doesn't mean I'm going to suggest that the connectors be kicked
> out just because *I* don't care about them.
Connectors are already out... That's what jakarta-tomcat-connector is for,
and maybe one day someone will get a clue and ask to the HTTPD PMC to make a
subproject for them and remove them from the Jakarta scope at all...
>> What I am interested in is a reliable standards compilant application server
>> that has the features I need for virtual hosting customer applications using
>> Apache as the web server. Tomcat 4.1 is getting very close to meeting those
>> needs. Performance is important, but secondary to reliablity and features.
>
> That's a perfectly valid need. So's the need for something you can
> install on a PC and get the "Hello, World" example up and running in three
> minutes or less after you've downloaded it. So is the need to have a
> server that is portable across environments that nobody is bothering to
> support native connectors for, but has a JVM. To say nothing of the need
> to embed HTTP support in other Java server applications. And also the
> need to have a servlet/JSP development platform that lets me turn around
> my compile-debug cycles without starting the server every single time. To
> say nothing of small-to-medium scale websites that don't get 8 million
> hits per day, and Tomcat is "fast enough" even if it isn't "fastest
> possible".
Craig, be real... Tomcat, despite the beautiful design we have for Catalina,
and we have to give you KUDOS for that, is not _yet_ ready to be used in
production... It simply doesn't work, it doesn't deliver the same
performance and reliability that (for example) ServletExec does (just
because we use it on our main production server).
What you say about features, is right, I mean, I don't need certain stuff,
and I can just remove it, but I see the tendency of adding more and more
features to a decent code base (Catalina) rather than making the thing work,
and with every release, "making the thing work" has become more and more
complex.
It is not what I want, but if this is what this group wants to have (a
mediocre servlet container working out of the box that can serve your pages
for a small-medium website), well, as I said Costin, I'm going to take my
business elsewhere. But that was for sure not one of the reasons that pushed
me in the first place to be a father and a member of this community.
Is it time for me to "get out" after 6 years spent here? Maybe. I did that
already. Apart from few fixes you don't see me much contributing to this
project, if not in words... There will be a time when the Apache Software
Foundation will have a servlet engine capable of competing with Resin, I'm
just not _there_ yet...
> Tomcat can meet all of those needs, but only if the developers are
> unselfish enough to understand that "I don't need that feature" does *not*
> mean "it should not be there at all". Such selfishness has not
> historically been a part of Apache culture in the five or so years I've
> been around -- I'd hate to see it start here and now.
Tomcat might meet some needs of this community, and please don't preach
about the "Apache culture", because facts might contradict you. That's why
I'm spending much more time in the APR and HTTPD projects, where features
are not the key, reliability, scalability, performance are. I just know that
HTTPD works for 58% of the internet. I'm not sure that Tomcat can even be
suited for a 10% of those...
Pier
--
[Perl] combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion of different
sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the power of C with
the readability of PostScript. [Jamie Zawinski - DNA Lounge - San Francisco]
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