Yes, it seems there are two forces at play here that aren't entirely compatible.

1. There is a TON of "non-RDF" XML data out there, just waiting to be 
processed, transformed, mined, etc. using semantic web tools.  Making this data 
accessible and even producible by semantic web tools could go a long way to 
gaining acceptance of these tools in the mainstream in an incremental way.

2. The need to educate folks about the best way to use RDF, OWL and 
semantically aware tools, which means moving them away from the low-level, 
brittle XML based stuff as soon and as much as possible, and into more pure 
semantic (i.e. RDF graph) environments.

For number 1, you need to provide a crutch to get them interested in the first 
place, but you don't want to the crutch to be too good such that they never 
move to part 2.  i.e. you don't want them to get the idea they should do Model 
to Model transforms using XSLT! =8-0

Jeff

________________________________
From: Holger Knublauch [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 10:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [tbc-users] Re: OWL 2 XML Serializtion

I agree, Jeff. The problem of any textual serialization (XML or not) of RDF/OWL 
models is that the underlying data model is a *graph*, with arbitrary links 
between nodes. XML has been optimized for *tree* structures. Even if people 
believe that they "need" XSLT, they may soon find out that even the most 
sophisticated XML serialization will be hard to swallow for their tools. It may 
work in certain cases, and I agree that making the transition easier for XML 
people is an important step for the acceptance of semantic technology. However, 
by doing so we may only increase the misunderstandings and put people on the 
wrong track.

Holger



On Nov 19, 2009, at 7:47 AM, Schmitz, Jeffrey A wrote:

The below does make more sense for what we need than creating a whole new, and 
"non-backward compatible" syntax.  Actually I was hoping perhaps OWL/XML was 
precisely what you recommend, a specification for producing a more regular (and 
xslt'able) RDF/XML.  And as someone who never uses turtle, N3, etc. (they just 
muddy the water for me) I agree that XML can be as human readable as any of the 
syntaxes, especially if you have an XML viewer such as the one provided by the 
XML plugin in Eclipse.

Of course we are actually using Jena/Java directly to output our "non-RDF" XML 
(we build an XML OWL model using SPARQL Constructs, traverse it to build a DOM 
and then serialize the DOM) so I'll have to investigate how to set these flags 
that you speak of to see if we can lean this process out by using xslt directly 
on our RDF/XML.  Just too much technology to keep up on :-)


Jeff
Work: 314-232-1997
Cell: 636-448-5990


The OWL/XML serialization was fundamentally unnecessary IMHO. The real problem 
is not that RDF/XML is broken. The main problem is that many RDF/XML writers 
are not using it well. It is actually very well possible to have nicely 
parseable RDF/XML files that are XSLT friendly. We just switch off the various 
options that exist in the RDF/XML syntax and use only one of the many 
possibilities. The OWL API actually makes a very good job in this, as the 
resulting RDF/XML files are very readable even for humans.

You will have much better chances convincing us (esp quickly) to do a more 
regular RDF/XML output that might actually meet your customer requirements 
without sacrificing breaking the RDF stack.



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