On 7/23/15, David Stainton <[email protected]> wrote: >> Why are we avoiding allowing users to make this choice because of the >> above reasons? If a user wants to run a relay or a bridge, we should >> make it easy. We don't answer the above questions when it is hard - >> are we really off the hook there? It just seems ridiculous. > > Obviously NAT has destroyed the Internet by violating the end to end > principal... however I'd like to remind the thread that many many > other "distributed" software systems also run into this very same NAT > issue. It sucks... and not just for Tor project but this has also > prevented many users of say for example Tahoe-LAFS from deploying > storage servers from their home behind a NAT device. >
It would be nice if by using Tor, we solved the end-to-end problem two different ways - by offering .onions and by assisting with any possible automated NAT punching. >>> But we have a gigantic userbase, and playing "consumer router support >>> technician" for all of the ones that ship with broken uPnP/NAT-PMP >>> implementations does not fill me with warm fuzzy feelings. >> >> I think this is a weird analysis. How many of those people even try to >> be a relay or a bridge? Do we have numbers on that? Does the support >> team object or are you objecting on their behalf? It just seems too >> hand wavy for too many years to punt on dealing with NAT properly. > > If I understand things correctly the uPnP/NAT-PMP is in fact not the > proper way to solve this problem because of the reasons Yawning > mentioned. IPFS (interplanetary filesystem) currently solves this > problem via some complicated protocol with the selection of a > rendezvous server... similar to Tor hidden services. Clearly this is > the correct way to solve the NAT problem. Am I wrong about this? I think that will never work for a relay or a bridge. Reachability for systems like IPFS has different considerations. In that sense, we've already solved it with hidden services. All the best, Jacob _______________________________________________ tor-dev mailing list [email protected] https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-dev
