On 3/6/13, Leho Kraav <l...@kraav.com> wrote: [...] > On 05.03.2013 23:47, Olemis Lang wrote: >> >> I'd advocate using the second . Let's just choose the ORM ;) >> >>> My spidey sense is telling me world doesn't really need yet another >>> web framework. I think it would make (at least for business) sense >>> to port the modules on top of bigger frameworks. >>> >> >> -1 The foundations of Trac are rock solid. > > I don't doubt this. My only concern is the size of a general purpose > plugin ecosystem around Trac today *and in foreseeable future*. Compared > to WordPress, which is what I'm working with currently day to day, we're > talking a drop in a bucket. And WP started as a simple blog engine, just > like Trac started as a simple issue tracker. Today WP a really solid > general purpose app platform with *massive* code drop-in and reuse > options via https://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/ (23,824 plugins, > 422,393,833 downloads, and counting) + themes + countless commercial > plugin product offers. >
those are facts ... why bother /me saying *agreed* [...] > > To me, all this DAL or no-DAL, Django or no-Django etc is connected this > way. At the very basic level, Trac does some very important things for > me very well. Which is also probably why we're all sitting here and > don't completely move on to something else. > To me I see the subject from a more *practical* perspective ... > So in my case, it either means separate interconnected systems (leave > Trac as it is, build other stuff in some other framework, connect via > RPC or whatever) or writing a looott of new Trac-stuff from scratch. ... which is , in either case we'll need to improve DB code ... say DBAL ... so we better start doing so tomorrow so that we can see how it goes after one ? two ? three ? ... months . > Trac shopping cart, anybody? :-$ > Real trac-hacks marketplace, anybody? IMHO that's another debate ... and does not depend *only* on the good faith of developers doing something and people tracking but consumers and marketing , and ... I'm just saying it's another subject . ;) > Just > a few examples that interest me on top of the issue tracking awesomeness > we have today :) > Let's see if you have a WSGI web app doing all that then what stops you from embedding inside Trac ? What prevents somebody to tightly integrate Trac and e.g. Django at a very low level thus providing seamless integration , deployment and management ? I know the first part of the answer : the limitations of Trac database layer . Let's fix it , and focus on the rest once that will be done . Let's put things in context ... I'd like to be able to install wordpress themes and make them work ootb to change Trac appearance . As long as it's technically feasible, what prevents somebody from writing a generic TracWordpressThemeIntegration plugin and make all such skins fall like dominoes ? Summarizing , IMO there many approaches to integrate two systems and make them interoperate . [...] > > It just feels like we're all going to grow grey and old, before anything > reasonable could be achieved going in the "write new implementations of > world on top of Trac-as-web-framework" direction. ... but maybe not on the direction of «improve Trac integration with established & popular technologies» > Maybe that's overly > pessimistic, but software is hard (ironic eh) so the negative scenario > is always significantly more likely. > you definitely have a point . What shall we do ? I have the feeling that you'll always end up questioning DB and SQL . I'd rather say , let's do that and find ways afterwards to either : 1. make current Trac a better Trac 2. build something else from scratch ... well ... from DBAL layer up ;) [...] > Maybe there would be more if there was more of a feel of being able to > build a business on Trac? > > But there's no wide choice or business feel because... *maybe* partly > because there's no DAL, to start. +1 ... not exactly because of that solely reason , but because of what it implies : a strong limitation to get a lot of things done , leaving some deployments out of the equation . [...] -- Regards, Olemis. Apache™ Bloodhound contributor http://issues.apache.org/bloodhound Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Trac Development" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to trac-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to trac-dev@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-dev?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
