To me, a standard(like X12) and a format (text/word/XML) are two different
things. (Remember, there is nothing like *.edi file). A standard can be
represented in multiple ways (like Rishel pointed out earlier and i agree
with her - a standard can have multiple schemas). So, X12 format can have
schemas in different forms (xml being just one of them) but the resulting
file(which is the file on the wire) can be the same. I know that this
resulting file follows the X12 standard. What i am not sure of is whether
it has to be in a particular format. (my guess is that as long as the
standard is X12 the format should not matter)
Since we are talking about the format on wire(not the standard - we all
know that the standard is X12), i would appreciate an opinion from somebody
on the listserv working directly with generating EDI files using a
translator and sending it to their trading partners.
Manutosh
(518) 257-4482
"Rishel,Wes"
<wes.rishel@gartn To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
er.com> cc:
Subject: RE: XML version of 278
10/22/2002 10:13
PM
Please respond to
transactions
Actually, this message is incorrect.
The X12 standard defines how the data must be represented on the wire and
that standard is incomopatible with XML. One can clearly construct XML
schemas that would represent the identical data but they would not be the
same, character for character, as the X12 standard and, hence, are not
acceptable by the terms of the regulation.
As a previous author has pointed out, an additional trouble is that there
is
not a schema to represent the data of the X12N transaction, there are
actually an uncountably high number of different schemas that could be
constructed. Indeed, those that are using XML internally have conceived of
dozens of different schemas to represent the same data.
These schemas are not directly interoperable -- two communicating parties
each with its own schema can't exchange messages without understanding the
other's schema and laboriously creating transforms.
Someday, perhaps, X12 will define a standard means of representing X12
transaction definitions as X12 schemas. When that happens, perhaps DHHS
will
amend the regulation to permit XML over the wire.
But that time is no time soon.
-----Original Message-----
From: Manutosh Mathur [mailto:mxm25@;health.state.ny.us]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:23 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: XML version of 278
I think we are missing the point here.
XML is a protocol which commands the way the data is stored. EDI ANSI X12
is a standard - it can be written in XML or any other format. HIPAA is
technology - neutral (whether it is XML or any other format doesn't really
matter)
Some of the popular EDI translators like Microsoft's Biztalk use XML to
save the X12 schemas internally. It does not necessarily mean that these
schemas are not EDI ANSI X12 files. It is possible that the translator
transmits the XML files which are following the X12 standard.
One can develop the 278(or any other HIPAA transaction) in XML. Similarly,
you can create non-HIPAA formats like UB-92 in XML.
XML is just a medium of communication, with the base standards set by EDI
ANSI X12 (in case of HIPAA).
Manutosh
(518)257-4482
"Martin Scholl"
<Martin.Scholl@HIPA To:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ASuite.com> cc:
Subject: RE: XML version
of 278
10/22/2002 02:58 PM
Please respond to
transactions
XML version of 278
It is completely up to any organization what they want to do with
transactions, once they are "in house". To the outside world, you have to
use X12N EDI. That's the law and XML would have been nice, but HIPAA was
conceived in the late eighties, early nineties when XML was still a
relatively unknown technology that IBM (?) developed. What you do after
you receive EDI transactions�is up to you.� There are many players, who
convert EDI into XML. Microsoft BizTalk for HIPAA is XML centered,
AmericanCoders has a EDI to Java XML solution, so does GoXML.
XML has some advantages. Basically it is capable of addressing the nested
structure of EDI documents and with an intelligent choice of the tag
names, it makes more sense then cryptic EDI qualifiers. There are a whole
lot of tools available to work with XML. It is hip and you can find many
resources for XML, human and otherwise. Is it such a great advantage to
convert one nested format into another? I don't know. You need probably to
store the information into a database and most databases cannot handle XML
natively.
Be sure you understand the advantages that an XML solution is supposed to
give you.� If you don't see them, they might not be there. But one thing
is for sure, you cannot replace HIPAA EDI with XML. That would take an act
of Congress and years of preparation;�and you can imagine how long that
would take.
Martin Scholl
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.HIPAASuite.com
301-924-5537 Voice
301-570-0139 Fax
-----Original Message-----
From: Tatge, Ellen [mailto:etatge@;phs.org]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:53 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: XML version of 278
As part of the web enablement project for our health plan, we have
contracted with a business associate to develop the 278 Authorization
request/response.� Our associate has developed an XML version of the 278
transaction for another client.� I am not sure of this other
organization's status as a covered entity under HIPAA, but this seems to
be outside the dictates of HIPAA compliance for covered entities.
Any opinions on this?� Are there any covered entities planning to use XML
for HIPAA transactions?
Thank you.
Ellen Tatge
IS Project Manager
Presbyterian Healthcare Services
505/923-6882
**********************************************************************
To be removed from this list, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please note that it may take up to 72 hours to process your request.
==================
The WEDI SNIP listserv to which you are subscribed is not moderated. The
discussions on this listserv therefore represent the views of the
individual
participants, and do not necessarily represent the views of the WEDI Board
of
Directors nor WEDI SNIP. If you wish to receive an official opinion, post
your question to the WEDI SNIP Issues Database at
http://snip.wedi.org/tracking/.
Posting of advertisements or other commercial use of this listserv is
specifically prohibited.
--- PRESBYTERIAN HEALTHCARE SERVICES DISCLAIMER ---
This message originates from Presbyterian Healthcare Services or one of
its affiliated organizations. It contains information, which may be
confidential or privileged, and is intended only for the individual or
entity named above. It is prohibited for anyone else to disclose, copy,
distribute or use the contents of this message. All personal messages
express views solely of the sender, which are not to be attributed to
Presbyterian Healthcare Services or any of its affiliated organizations,
and may not be distributed without this disclaimer. If you received this
message in error, please notify us immediately at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
**********************************************************************
To be removed from this list, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please note that it may take up to 72 hours to process your request.
===========================
The WEDI SNIP listserv to which you are subscribed is not moderated. The
discussions on this listserv therefore represent the views of the
individual
participants, and do not necessarily represent the views of the WEDI Board
of
Directors nor WEDI SNIP. If you wish to receive an official opinion, post
your question to the WEDI SNIP Issues Database at
http://snip.wedi.org/tracking/.
Posting of advertisements or other commercial use of this listserv is
specifically prohibited.
**********************************************************************
To be removed from this list, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please note that it may take up to 72 hours to process your request.
=====================================================
The WEDI SNIP listserv to which you are subscribed is not moderated. The
discussions on this listserv therefore represent the views of the
individual
participants, and do not necessarily represent the views of the WEDI Board
of
Directors nor WEDI SNIP. If you wish to receive an official opinion, post
your question to the WEDI SNIP Issues Database at
http://snip.wedi.org/tracking/.
Posting of advertisements or other commercial use of this listserv is
specifically prohibited.
**********************************************************************
To be removed from this list, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please note that it may take up to 72 hours to process your request.
===========================
The WEDI SNIP listserv to which you are subscribed is not moderated. The
discussions on this listserv therefore represent the views of the
individual
participants, and do not necessarily represent the views of the WEDI Board
of
Directors nor WEDI SNIP. If you wish to receive an official opinion, post
your question to the WEDI SNIP Issues Database at
http://snip.wedi.org/tracking/.
Posting of advertisements or other commercial use of this listserv is
specifically prohibited.
**********************************************************************
To be removed from this list, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please note that it may take up to 72 hours to process your request.
=====================================================
The WEDI SNIP listserv to which you are subscribed is not moderated. The
discussions on this listserv therefore represent the views of the individual
participants, and do not necessarily represent the views of the WEDI Board of
Directors nor WEDI SNIP. If you wish to receive an official opinion, post
your question to the WEDI SNIP Issues Database at
http://snip.wedi.org/tracking/.
Posting of advertisements or other commercial use of this listserv is
specifically prohibited.
