Noone asked me, but I'm on the list :)  Is it worth looking at how, for
example, Claws-mail or Sylpheed do it?  Neither is tied wholly into the
gnome ecosystem that I know of, so maybe their strategy is instructive. 
As a somewhat casual user I can say Trojita stops becoming lightweight
when it depends on a lot of other stuff, so I see Jan's point.  But I
also use Mutt, and my password is stored in cleartext in a chmod 700
file, which I can live with.  It's really a matter of setting
expectations for the user.  If they know they're going to have to deal
with a chmod 700 file in exchange for being able to use it flawlessly
without dependencies in a DE like openbox, many of them/us would decide
that's worth it! Or you could just go the route of "ask for it at
startup and forget when the program stops."

My two bits, no charge.

Randy

-- 
  Randall Wood
  [email protected]

On Mon, Jun 17, 2013, at 04:20 PM, Jan Kundrát wrote:
> On Monday, 17 June 2013 14:41:16 CEST, Thomas Lübking wrote:
> > Wouldn't that render Trojitá "unusable" for "non-DE" users 
> > (openbox or so), eventually even the "minor" ones (xfce, lxde)?
> 
> That depends on what "unusable" means. It will cause a regression in that
> the passwords will no longer be remembered, and that user will have to
> enter their password at Trojita's startup.
> 
> For me, this is not a problem and getting rid of the code for saving them
> on disk in cleartext is a good move. Do you see it as a critical feature?
> 
> > -> What about warning about the need to store PWs plaintext and 
> > required to protect it on the system level? (symlink to 
> > encrypted disk/image or USB stick)
> 
> I'm not a big fan of this; disk encryption helps defend against offline
> attacks, but does nothing against a random application reading a
> configuration file from a well-known location on the FS. Yes, I'm aware
> of the possibility to ptrace() or just reading the memory image, but an
> on-disk file with cleartext password, even if the disk itself is
> encrypted, just screams "wrong design" to me.
> 
> > Otherwise and reg. support for multiple accounts there should 
> > at least be a master PW to read encrypted account passwords from 
> > HDD, yesno?
> 
> I'd prefer to spend my time writing a mail client, not debugging,
> maintaining or reviewing patches for crypto code dealing with password
> storage. If someone feels that doing this within Trojita is a great thing
> to do, more power to them, though. It's just that the perspective of
> being able to offload this to a systemwide, third-party
> code/library/daemon looks very, very appealing to me. I do admit that the
> list of supported backends of the QtKeychain is rather limited :(.
> 
> So, a tl;dr summary of my point of view:
> 
> - I do not use password storage myself, and so I don't care that much
> about it
> - the less I have to deal with this, the better,
> - still, I don't want to cause needless regression for the users.
> 
> We will have to ballance the convenience of users who "need PW storage"
> but "can't be bothered to run bloat like KWallet" with the comfort of us
> supporting less code and security of not having passwords on disk in
> cleartext.
> 
> >> PWs shall still be "remembered" in memory while the session is active)
> > Whatever the approach to this would be (assuming "session" 
> > means "until logged out" and not "while process alive") do NOT 
> > abuse the X11 server to "temporarily" store it. Everybody and 
> > everything could read it from there anytime.
> 
> Actually I meant "Trojita session" as in "the process is running".
> 
> Cheers,
> Jan
> 
> -- 
> Trojitá, a fast Qt IMAP e-mail client -- http://trojita.flaska.net/
> 

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