************* The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] ************
Hello David, I don't know why you think you are totally OK to throw dirt at Slim. I have been enjoying his insights and I would say that if you don't like him, than don't read his stuff. There are others like me who enjoy it. Michel
From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 16:57:16 -0500 Subject: [TROM1] Sleeping after starting a session ************* The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] ************ Slim , This post of yours below on "falling asleep during session" has been or is the most useful post that you have ever posted, from my perspective, at least. But irrespective of this post, and I was going to write this before you posted this particular post... ( I opened my hotmail page to write this letter and saw your post) I was going to say, that all what you say in terms of giving assistance, at least prior to this post, ( e.i. always saying to just follow the instructions in the book) is easy for you to say with all your background in scn and listening to TROM on tape and thinking about TROM for ten years before retiring and getting down to do it. ( You had an unusual circumstance and opportunity to get to where you are now in TROM. Listening to TROM on tape 40 times over ten yrs is a long time to wrap your mind around something.) But now that you are there and doing TROM you have practically zero ability to relate to someone who has not got that knowledge, reality, experience and gradient that you have. In theory, and or principle, what you have been posting as advice directly and indirectly for me and others is true in principle, but certainly not in practice. You just can't seem to put yourself in a person's shoes, like myself or anyone else who does not have sufficient expereince and knowledge, who is having trouble with what ever point they are on in TROM and help them from where they are. To see and understand a student's problem from their point of view, and help them to understand from their point of view, is the "purpose, abililty and skill " of a good teacher, which makes a teacher respected and not seen or regarded as an asshole in plain language. Regardless of what Dennis says in TROM " anyone can do it" , it is not true. Everything he said in TROM is NOT true. That is one one of false datums and therefore a trap. But personally I do have enough knowledge of scn bridge stuff and what the cause of people's problems and what to do to set one self free from "bank" and go clear or reach Nirvana, ( a rose by another name is still a rose ) that I can see and understand is that most likely that the basic of TROM (that life consists only of "life and postulates" and all we have to do is understand that and eliminate non life goal postulates (serving as blocks and aberrating factors) and replace with them life goal postulates or to be AT the KIND of "cause" a person wants to be) is or appears true to me, in principle. This is what keeps me interested in TROM. But TROM starts off on a very high level (at a post scientology bridge level) and even then goes up from there on an extremely steep gradient. Plus Dennis' style of writing is unusual, often ambiguous and cryptic, and makes assumptions that the student knows what he knows, and then it contains a few false datums which serves as traps, and then it contains some riddles and then he writes in articulating algebraic logic language (like trying to understand and do quadratic equation algebra in one's mind) and then he writes or rather speaks in a type of language, which is like shorthand is to normal writing. (Yes, it is true, that the datum to never go past a word you do not understand, must be applied, but this goes well beyond that in the usual or practical sense. It takes a lot more than simply using a dictionary. Anyone who takes an honest and impartial read of TROM will realize that. So there is a lot to overcome to understand TROM. It took you ten years and listening to TROM 40 times as you said. That is a long time. Some people may not have that much time due to work or be nearing end of physical life, nor should it take ten yrs to understand. In order to be of useful help to someone who has not got a background of comparable magnitude to you, you have to take that in to consideration and compensate for it when helping people do TROM, if it is now your mission to do so, as you so often assert. Otherwise you come across as what John Boice accurately called you "an asshole". Myself and I am sure a lot of other people on this list think the same, but were reluctant to say so, likely due to having to do with being of better character, discernment and having more etiquette. But there comes a time when all other rules, guidelines or alternatives become useless and or not applicable and a spade has to be called spade. That unbecoming title ( asshole) is or would be inappropriate in that realm of that "oneness" that you discovered and refer to, and the title covers a lot of ground of definitions of understanding and meaning amongst lay people, common language and generalities, not easily described or replaced with non vulgar words or language in higher levels or socially respectable levels or models of existance. But when used, people certainly know what it means, without going into detail or specifics. The title seldom requires more explanation. So in reference to your earlier post of a couple of days ago on life goals and non life goals and living and operating on life-goals and your realization or cognition of how well life works when you are operating on life goals, I have to ask you: is acting like an asshole or being an asshole or being considered an "asshole" a "life- goal " ? Now..........- next on the other side of the coin.... Your letter below on "sleep" is indeed helpful. >From experience, I was beginning to realize this very same thing about falling >asleep in session myself. It is known as blowing off or running out anetan >(periods of unconsciouness) in scn. I think my case consists of being stuck in repeating and cycling periods of unconsciousness. I have thought that or had that hunch for a long time, which was after I began to understand the stuff scientology is made of, some yrs ago, but I did not complete my cycle of gaining knowledge and understanding of the problem until now. Until now it was an ambiguous thought. I am hoping that I am at least getting more dept of understanding now. So thanks for the confirmation and assisting with and hopefully completing the cycle or process of understanding for me. David > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 07:54:05 -0800 > Subject: [TROM1] Sleeping after starting a session > > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > ************ > It's normal to get very sleepy sometimes while timebreaking > > Let it happen and take a nap then pick up where you left off after you > wake up or the next day > > You won't fall asleep when you restart where you left off. Just pick > it up where youve left off until you've flattened it out. > > You might fall asleep the next time you start a new session. No > problem , sleep well . Sleeping is a good thing . > > Just make it a point to use the levels and RI on a daily basis and > plan on missing some days when you fall asleep after starting your > session > > I've had the best naps in my life as a result of using TROM > > It's very normal and all part of the process as a whole > > > > _______________________________________________ > Trom mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom Slim , This post of yours below on "falling asleep during session" has been or is the most useful post that you have ever posted, from my perspective, at least. But irrespective of this post, and I was going to write this before you posted this particular post... ( I opened my hotmail page to write this letter and saw your post) I was going to say, that all what you say in terms of giving assistance, at least prior to this post, ( e.i. always saying to just follow the instructions in the book) is easy for you to say with all your background in scn and listening to TROM on tape and thinking about TROM for ten years before retiring and getting down to do it. ( You had an unusual circumstance and opportunity to get to where you are now in TROM. Listening to TROM on tape 40 times over ten yrs is a long time to wrap your mind around something.) But now that you are there and doing TROM you have practically zero ability to relate to someone who has not got that knowledge, reality, experience and gradient that you have. In theory, and or principle, what you have been posting as advice directly and indirectly for me and others is true in principle, but certainly not in practice. You just can't seem to put yourself in a person's shoes, like myself or anyone else who does not have sufficient expereince and knowledge, who is having trouble with what ever point they are on in TROM and help them from where they are. To see and understand a student's problem from their point of view, and help them to understand from their point of view, is the "purpose, abililty and skill " of a good teacher, which makes a teacher respected and not seen or regarded as an asshole in plain language. Regardless of what Dennis says in TROM " anyone can do it" , it is not true. Everything he said in TROM is NOT true. That is one one of false datums and therefore a trap. But personally I do have enough knowledge of scn bridge stuff and what the cause of people's problems and what to do to set one self free from "bank" and go clear or reach Nirvana, ( a rose by another name is still a rose ) that I can see and understand is that most likely that the basic of TROM (that life consists only of "life and postulates" and all we have to do is understand that and eliminate non life goal postulates (serving as blocks and aberrating factors) and replace with them life goal postulates or to be AT the KIND of "cause" a person wants to be) is or appears true to me, in principle. This is what keeps me interested in TROM. But TROM starts off on a very high level (at a post scientology bridge level) and even then goes up from there on an extremely steep gradient. Plus Dennis' style of writing is unusual, often ambiguous and cryptic, and makes assumptions that the student knows what he knows, and then it contains a few false datums which serves as traps, and then it contains some riddles and then he writes in articulating algebraic logic language (like trying to understand and do quadratic equation algebra in one's mind) and then he writes or rather speaks in a type of language, which is like shorthand is to normal writing. (Yes, it is true, that the datum to never go past a word you do not understand, must be applied, but this goes well beyond that in the usual or practical sense. It takes a lot more than simply using a dictionary. Anyone who takes an honest and impartial read of TROM will realize that. So there is a lot to overcome to understand TROM. It took you ten years and listening to TROM 40 times as you said. That is a long time. Some people may not have that much time due to work or be nearing end of physical life, nor should it take ten yrs to understand. In order to be of useful help to someone who has not got a background of comparable magnitude to you, you have to take that in to consideration and compensate for it when helping people do TROM, if it is now your mission to do so, as you so often assert. Otherwise you come across as what John Boice accurately called you "an asshole". Myself and I am sure a lot of other people on this list think the same, but were reluctant to say so, likely due to having to do with being of better character, discernment and having more etiquette. But there comes a time when all other rules, guidelines or alternatives become useless and or not applicable and a spade has to be called spade. That unbecoming title ( asshole) is or would be inappropriate in that realm of that "oneness" that you discovered and refer to, and the title covers a lot of ground of definitions of understanding and meaning amongst lay people, common language and generalities, not easily described or replaced with non vulgar words or language in higher levels or socially respectable levels or models of existance. But when used, people certainly know what it means, without going into detail or specifics. The title seldom requires more explanation. So in reference to your earlier post of a couple of days ago on life goals and non life goals and living and operating on life-goals and your realization or cognition of how well life works when you are operating on life goals, I have to ask you: is acting like an asshole or being an asshole or being considered an "asshole" a "life- goal " ? Now..........- next on the other side of the coin.... Your letter below on "sleep" is indeed helpful. >From experience, I was beginning to realize this very same thing about falling >asleep in session myself. It is known as blowing off or running out anetan >(periods of unconsciouness) in scn. I think my case consists of being stuck in repeating and cycling periods of unconsciousness. I have thought that or had that hunch for a long time, which was after I began to understand the stuff scientology is made of, some yrs ago, but I did not complete my cycle of gaining knowledge and understanding of the problem until now. Until now it was an ambiguous thought. I am hoping that I am at least getting more dept of understanding now. So thanks for the confirmation and assisting with and hopefully completing the cycle or process of understanding for me. David > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 07:54:05 -0800 > Subject: [TROM1] Sleeping after starting a session > > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > ************ > It's normal to get very sleepy sometimes while timebreaking > > Let it happen and take a nap then pick up where you left off after you > wake up or the next day > > You won't fall asleep when you restart where you left off. Just pick > it up where youve left off until you've flattened it out. > > You might fall asleep the next time you start a new session. No > problem , sleep well . Sleeping is a good thing . > > Just make it a point to use the levels and RI on a daily basis and > plan on missing some days when you fall asleep after starting your > session > > I've had the best naps in my life as a result of using TROM > > It's very normal and all part of the process as a whole > > > > _______________________________________________ > Trom mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom _______________________________________________ Trom mailing list [email protected] http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
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